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FORUMET REDD VÅRE BARN • View topic - BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:04 pm 
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Linda Hofstad Helleland:

(As a government minister for I will not comment on individual cases.
I am here to see to it that there is a Barnevern which is there for the children, not to comment on individual cases.)
Jeg har ikke anledning til å gå inn i enkeltsaker. Det handler ikke om likegyldighet.
(I do not have the possibility of going into individual cases. It is not about indifference.)
Aftenposten, 21 / 22 August 2018


I see. No individual cases, no concrete facts from the real world. But when the Minister will not go into individual questions in idividual cases, then she takes no responsibility for what the system all the time leads to.

Free from responsibility. Repudiation of responsibility.

Helleland's article repeats again and again all the statements we are used to, about how everything is good, how much better everything shall nevertheless become, how much money is poured into it. It is like hearing a doll talk. It is in no way informative, just stubborn. We have heard all of it for years – for myself at least from 1994.

*

A video made by Rune Fardal; he discusses Linda Helleland's article. 

Rune Fardal:

(Barnevernet is criticised like nobody's business, politicians are silent.)
Focus on Family & Human Rights in Norway, Family Channel, 22 August 2018

  
  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:09 am 
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Linda Merete Skarnes, sosionom og barnevernsleder i Enebakk:
(LMS, qualified social worker and cps leader in )

(The cps needs the Minister for children)
Østlandets Blad, 23 August 2018


"BBC lager en dokumentarrekke om det norske barnevernet. Vi må ikke tro det er god reklame. Til det virker kunnskapen om det norske vernet av barn altfor mangelfull ute i verden. Det lages historier som minner om de mest søkte konspirasjonsteorier."
(The BBC makes a documentary series about Norwegian Barnevernet. We should not think it is good advertisement. The insight into the Norwegian protection of children found out in the world seems far too insufficient for that. Stories are constructed which are reminiscent of the most far-fetched conspiration theories.)

From my point of view, hearing that the BBC is going to make a whole series of codumentaries about little Norway's Barnevernet sounds exceedingly encouraging! I didn't know! (Wonder where she takes her information from.) So far there have been two, over two years. But it is good to hear that it is enough to upset cps workers.

The problem for this cps leader is really not that the BBC's programs from 2016 and 2018 "construct stories". Quite the contrary: the stories exist and they are real. That is why the upset and protest over a cps which carries out forcible dissolution of families are not likely to cease.

Apart from the central questions, the ideas turn up again in Skarnes' article of cps protesters and people who themselves have been subjected to cps destruction as having some kind of 'conspiracy theories'. Quaint ideas, cf the curious fantasies displayed , and (in Norwegian) in . Is cps leader Skarnes an adherent of this circle of people, perhaps?


"Etter det jeg kjenner til har ikke Helleland selv jobbet i barnevernet, og det er derfor ikke å forvente at hun har alle svarene, ..."
(As far as I know, Helleland has not worked in the cps herself, and can therefore not be expected to know all the answers, ...)

But Helleland has expressed opinions about Barnevernet even many years ago, and has continued along the same lines of thinking. She absolutely knows enough about the version of Barnevernet which Skarnes wants to be spread around abroad too.


".... men det som er forunderlig er at det virker ikke som hun har rådgivere som kan hjelpe henne med gode svar heller. Ett eksempel på et slikt godt svar presenterer Reidar Hjermann i Dagbladet den 7. august. Som han skriver; vanskeligere er det ikke."
(... but it is curious that she does not seem to have advisors who can help her with good answers either. One example of such a good answer is presented by Reidar Hjermann in Dagbladet on 7 August. As he says: It is not much more difficult than this.)

Well, will such a general program statement convince everybody abroad when concrete questions are brushed aside?


"En annen mulig årsak, som Bunkholdt, Einarsson og Storø er inne på i Aftenposten 16. august, er at regjeringen rett og slett mangler en politikk på dette området."
(Another possible reason, touched on by Bunkholdt, Einarsson and Storø in Aftenposten on 16 August, is that the government simply lacks policy in this area.)

No, the government is not without a child protection policy, it keeps pushing its policy in the wrong direction.

"Barnevernet i Norge er antagelig best i verden, og dette skulle jeg ønske vi kunne være kollektivt stolte av. Selvfølgelig har vi fortsatt en vei å gå her også, men det må være lov å feire underveis."
(Norwegian cps is probably the best in the world, and I wish we could be collectively proud of it. Of course, we still have some way to go here too, but we must be allowed to celebrate on the way.)

So we see where the citizens of Enebakk can find their municipality's child protection service. Do they celebrate each individual taking-into-care? Their leader, anyway, believes that parents are "frustrerte, irriterte og sinte foreldre ..." (frustrated, irritated and angry parents ...). These are strongly pejorative terms in the present context. She does not mention that many, both children and parents who are exposed to the 'measures' of the cps, are broken-hearted and desperately unhappy, and that the likelihood of death, for example through suicide, is many times as high for them.


Skarnes says that "Barn og ungdom forteller om omsorgssvikt, vold og overgrep – og de blir trodd! Heldigvis." (Children and young people tell (us) about care failure, violence and abuse – and they are believed! Fortunately.) She says nothing about any action on the part of the cps when children and young people tell them about care failure, violence and abuse in Barnevernet's care.

    

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:29 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:29 pm 
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A central person in child protection, Andersland, tries to turn the discussion in other directions


Geir Kjell Andersland, child rights jurist and politician for the party Venstre:

Linda Hofstad Helleland (H) må skarpt tilbakevise kritikken som bare er mot offentlig innblanding i familielivet.
(Grab the initiative, Child Minister!
Linda Hofstad Helleland (the Conservative Party) must firmly reject the criticism which only goes against public interference in family life)

Bergens Tidende, 24 August 2018


Geir Kjell Andersland is very well known as leader of the County Board of Hordaland and Sogn og Fjordane counties, and as regional director of Buetat region West. His views always onesidedly support the child protection system and is dismissive of families. Likewise in this article. It gives a good illustration of what families who are forcibly demolished by Barnevernet, the county boards and the courts are up against when they try to give a voice to their distress and despair.

*

"Barnevernet i Norge er nylig blitt hengt ut i en tv-reportasje, signert den anerkjente reporteren Tim Whewell i respekterte BBC.
    BBC-programmet fremstår som svært ensidig, men norske myndigheter var forespurt om en kommentar. Dessverre ble det takket nei til denne unike sjansen til å gi en helhetlig presentasjon av norsk barnevern for et stort og internasjonalt publikum. Avslaget førte til at programmet fikk den infame tittelen «Norway’s Silent Scandal»."

(Norwegian Barnevernet has recently been exposed in a new tv documentary, signed the highly recognised reporter Tim Whewell in respected BBC.
    The BBC program is of a very one-sided character, but Norwegian authorities were asked for a comment. Unfortunately they said no to this unique chance to gi a comprehensive presentation of Norwegian CPS for a large and international public. The refusal led to the program being given the infamour title of "Norway's Silent Scandal".)


As early as this in his article, Andersland's understanding is already considerably twisted:

(a) Does he believe that the program was intended to give Norwegian authorities a platform to boast about principles, not having to give a reply about the concrete matters which BBC's journalist wanted to ask the Minister? Apparently so.

(b) "Expose" (literally 'henge ut' means 'to hang out in public view') and "infamous"? Andersland seems a bit heated. Well, CPS people keep complaining that they are being "exposed". At the same time, they are proud of what they do – that which the critics write and speak about, and which is nothing they do in their private lives but belongs to their job in public employ. Why, then, is a description of this the same as "exposing" them and it?

(c) The BBC documentary being one-sided in showing two CPS cases and a criminal court case from the families' side this time, should be balanced not only against the Minister's refusal to answer questions, but also against the endless series of reports and documentary programs and articles which Norwegian media give us, quite uncritical of the CPS. Andersland's own article is no exception in its helpfulness to the official view, and we notice he has had no trouble getting it published in the largest newspaper on the west coast, Bergens Tidende.
    It furthermore seems strikingly one-sided of Andersland to avoid even mentioning the central theme in the BBC documentary: the fact that a child psychiatrist who has been very active as an expert in lots of CPS cases and as an evaluator of the expertise of others, has now been convicted of having for 20 years enjoyed himself watching illegal child abuse pictures and videos of a crass nature, and the fact that this naturally raises questions about the kind of expertise found in the CPS professions.

*

We find the kind of derailing of criticism og the CPS in Andersland's demand for more competence, more proficiendy:
"Så krevende som barnevernets oppgave er blitt, særlig i lys av de multikulturelle utfordringer, er det behov for ny og dypere kompetanse blant de ansatte."
(The task of the CPS has become so demanding, especially in the light of multi-cultural challenges, that there is a need for new and deeper competence among the employees.)

This is a standard answer from our authorities to every criticism of how CPS work is carried out in practice.
    No, the criticisable actions of Barnevernet are not due to Norway now having an influx of immigrants from other cultures. The criticisable actions have always been there, right back to when child protection was first organised: in the 1890s (they were called "vergerådene" – 'protection committees'). Andersland also praises the these committees quite one-sidedly, regardless of their less than untouchable history:
"Norge fikk verdens første barnevernlov, vergerådsloven, vedtatt i 1896. Den gjorde Norge til en barnerettslig pioner.", "... Norges stolte fortid på feltet ...".
(Norway had the world's first child protection law, the law of "vergerådene", passed in 1896. It made Norway into a pioneer of child rights. ..... Norway's proud past in this field... )

And no, more education and training in the same direction as we have at present will of course not be any remedy. The same goes for the elevation of the county boards to become – or shall we say "be called" – courts.

*

Andersland brings forward Killén as an authority whose judgment can be trusted: "Ferske uttalelser fra «grand old lady» i norsk barnevernsundervisning, Kari Killèn, om «manglende faglig forståelse i systemet» gir grunn til reell bekymring."
(Recent opinions from the "grand old lady" in child protection teaching, Kari Killén, about "deficient professional understanding in the system" gives us reason for real concern.)

A far from trivial part of what is wrong in the CPS in Norway today, stems precisely from Killén's "professional understanding", which the system will again have in the lead (cf ).

*

"Også FNs barnekomité har kommet med bekymringer, blant annet om Norges høye antall omsorgsovertagelser, samt hvordan akuttvedtak gjennomføres. Denne kritikken er mer alvorlig enn innslaget i BBC."
(The UN's children's committee, too, has voiced concern, among other things over Norway's high number of takings-into-care, and about how emergency takings-into-care are carried through. This criticism is more serious than the item in the BBC.)

Is Andersland trying to trivialise what the BBC documentary showed, I wonder? He holds a firm belief in the system possessing complete insight into what is good for children and is competent to force it through – other opinions are a "threat":

"Samtidig må [statsråd Helleland] skarpt tilbakevise den delen av kritikken som bare er mot offentlig innblanding i familielivet, og derved en trussel mot barns beste."
(At the same time, [Minister Helleland] must firmly reject the criticism which only goes against public interference in family life, and which is thereby a threat to the child's best interest.)

    

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:24 am 
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A short piece, only three little paragraphs, which it would be tempting to copy in its entirety, because they all contain arguments which hit the bull's eye:



(Silent about silence)
By Marit Johanne Bruset, psychology specialist and professional child expert
Aftenposten, 26 August 2018

"Eit hovudpoeng i BBC-dokumentaren «Norways Silent Scandal» er norske medium, inkludert Aftenposten som Ben McPherson har tilknyting til, sin tausheit om den dømde barne- og ungdomspsykiaterens rolle i barnevernet. Kvifor stillast ingen spørsmål om grunnen til dette?"
(A focus in the BBC documentary "Norway's Silent Scandal" is the silence of Norwegian media, including Aftenposten, which Ben McPherson is connected to. Silence about the role of the convicted child and youth psychiatrist in Barnevernet. Why are there no questions about the reason for this?)

"Den dømde sakkunnige var ein aktiv deltakar i debatten med stor fagleg tillit i det politiske miljøet og overfor fagetatane. Argumentasjonen som nedtona betydinga av biologiske band, fekk gjennomslag hos mange."
(The convicted expert was an active participant in the debate, benefiting from great confidence given to him in political circles and in the professional establishments. The argumentation which toned down the importance of biological ties was approved by many.)
  
  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:51 pm 
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Wonderfully revealing about official Norway!


Vigdis Bunkholdt, Jona Hafdis Einarsson og Jan Storø :

(It is not about individual cases, it is about politics)
Aftenposten, 26 August 2018


The authors refer to their article of 16 August, cf , and to Helleland's answer of 22 August (comment ).

Now they say:

"Vi har alle tre arbeidet i barnevernet et helt yrkesliv innen ulike forvaltningsnivåer. Vi vet meget godt hvordan arbeidsfordelingen i barnevernet er, og at statsråden ikke skal uttale seg i enkeltsaker. Å bruke spalteplass på dette er derfor en lite relevant reaksjon på våre påpekninger.
    Vårt poeng var å peke på at departementet ikke burde latt en slik gyllen mulighet gå fra seg til å fortelle generelt om barnevernet."

(All three of us have worked in the CPS for a whole professional life on different organisatorial levels. We know full well what the division of labour in the CPS is like, and that the Government Minister is not to comment on individual cases. To take up space about this in the newspaper is therefore hardly a relevant reaction to what we pointed out.
    Our point was to emphasise that the Ministry should not have let such a golden opportunity to tell (them) about Barnevernet in general, pass them by.)

"Dette er i tråd med de anbefalinger som direktoratet gir til kommunene i sin veileder «Gode råd om mediekontakt». ...... Kommunene oppfordres til å møte konkrete forespørsler om en sak med generell informasjon slik at kommunen kan [du] få ut viktig informasjon til offentligheten om det arbeidet som gjøres for å ivareta barns beste."
(This is in agreement with the recommendations given by the directorate to the municipalities in their advisor "Good advice about media contact". .... The municipalities are asked to meet concrete questions about a case with general information, so that the municipality can spread important information to the public about the work being done to take care of children's best interest.)


I think most Norwegians will recall a folk tale, famous among us, about this way of responding to questions. Wasn't it something about

A: "God morning, my good man!"
B: "Axe handle."

?

And now, here it is, actually set out by our authorities as a rule to follow, and it is proclaimed in Bufdir's guide to the municipalities:
"... møte konkrete forespørsler om en sak med generell informasjon ..."
(.... meet concrete questions about a case with general information ...)

It is very illuminating! I mean, what a blessing to have it presented in this clear way, both that the Ministry and its directorate Bufdir think this is an excellent way of communicating and entering into a dialogue, and that these three writers, who work in the CPS system: Bunkholdt, Einarsson and Storø, also think so.

– So we know where we are. We must hope that this governmental way of promoting Norwegian excellence is well publicised abroad: the fact that an official advisor exists which says that this is the way it is and this is the way it should be. So that all who want to communicate with official Norway about specific problems knows that they can save themselves the trouble of asking.

Oh well, it is typically Norwegian to be excellent, as she said – a certain mother of the nation who was a prime minister here!

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:06 am 
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Linda Merete Skarnes, sosionom og barnevernsleder:

(Helleland's clichés about child protection)
Aftenposten, 26 August 2018


Another contribution from Skarnes, saying much the same as she , essentially , although Skarnes is even vaguer. They agree that the minister should not comment on individual cases. Skarnes, however, thinks that

"..... bommer Helleland i sitt forsøk på forsvar og forklaring.
    Det som derimot forventes, er at hun på generelt grunnlag står opp for barnevernet, og at hun er en tydelig talsperson for de mest vanskeligstilte barnas rettigheter.
.....
    Selvfølgeligheter og tomme ord er ikke det barnevernet trenger. Vi trenger en som tør å ta bladet fra munnen og våger å stå i stormen sammen med oss."

(.... Helleland misses in her attempt to defend and explain.
    What is expected is, on the other hand, is for her to stand up for Barnevernet on a general basis, and to be an explicit spokesperson for the rights of the children who are in the most difficult position.
......
    Platitudes and empty words are not what Barnevernet needs. We need someone who has the courage not to mince matters and who dares to stand in the storm with us.)

*

Not mince matters - - Should Helleland tell the CPS critics or the BBC off, and demand "silence" to every bit of criticism, instead of just babbling irrelevantly into the air?

In what Skarnes says, we actually perceive the dilemma of the CPS workers, albeit that Skarnes herself does not see it: What can the Ministry and they themselves say which is not just hot air, when they are not to be concrete? How will they "stand up for Barnevernet" and be "explicit", if they are not to come up with the well-known clichés? If they are to respond to every concrete question about cases where children have not suffered "care failure, violence and abuse" from their parents (which Skarnes expresses that she believes they have, in her article in Østlandets Blad), but from the CPS industry?

    

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Now one of the families in the BBC documentary has got all their children back.

Får barna hjem etter 1810 dager  (Get the children home after 1810 days)
https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/far-ba ... r/70152163

I get so tired when I read this story. Because it is an old story over again. Parents accused of violence. But police found no proof of that.

It doesn't matter. The CPS has other criteria on regarding the proof material, the municipality CPS leader says. (- Det ligger andre beviskrav til grunn i en barnevernssak enn i en straffesak.) What she is really saying is that the CPS do their own investigation, interrogation and assessment, and make their own conclusions. And frankly that pure speculation is really enough to pick up the biggest tools in the box.

Something many of us already know.

It was the same with me. "We do not think your acknowledgement of performing violence towards your children goes deep enough", two female CPS workers told me. And then they sent me off to a psychologist to help me acknowledge. I was not violent enough to involve the police, obviously.

The only thing I acknowledged was that these psychologists were negotiating a financial deal with the municipality and did not seem interested in any other approach than the one presented by the CPS by letter and phone.

The parents in the article did nothing wrong towards their children.

The hysteria is however, that the Norwegian system truly believes that these 1810 days are justified if the children in any way were exposed to mild physical punishment. And they also find it justified if they had suspicion of such. And there is no sign of regret when it is now confirmed that the children have not been exposed to violence.

Shouldn't one expect that a self-claimed child-loving system would show some kind of grief when it is finally concluded that five years was taken from this family without a good reason? Or at least some self-reflection?

That is the sickness in all of this. There is no proportionality between the problem to be solved and the means to solve it. It is the actions of the CPS that traumatize the children, and therefore this whole thing is surreal and unbelieveable for parents and children involved.

And this article just gives a glimpse of all the meaningless suffering that the CPS causes in families.

And it also explains why there is an ever broadening movement to end the destructive actions of the Norwegian CPS.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:01 pm 
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Linda Hofstad Helleland (the Conservative Party), the Minister of Children and Equality, being interviewed.

(Note: The translations are mine. MHS)



(– Norwegian child protection is ahead.
Other countries will follow us.)

Aftenposten, 29 August 2018

The interview article is incredibly revealing, it is so very clear – clear enough, hopefully, to bring an end to the faithful confidence to our authorities' will and ability to put matters right in Barnevernet, if we can only show them, in a friendly way, that there are some mistakes which should be put right and then everything will be fine. – There are some good comments in subsequent issues of Aftenposten. I will post by and by.

The interview is worth bying the paper! Unfortunately the internet version is reserved for subscribers, except for a couple of sentences.


"– Jeg viker ikke en tomme når det gjelder norsk barnevern. Norge er et foregangsland når det gjelder å beskytte barn mot vold og overgrep, sier (barneminister) Linda Hofstad Helleland (H)."
(I am not going to give an inch when it comes to Norwegian child protection. Norway is a pioneer country when it is about protecting children against violence and abuse, says (children's minister) Linda Hofstad Helleland (the Conservative Party).)

Nice to have it stated in such indisputable terms how irate the Minister is towards families shom she lets the CPS Barnevernet demolish with their violence and abuse.

*

"Helleland mener historien vil vise at Norge har rett, selv om det kommer mye kritikk fra tunge aktører både nasjonalt og internasjonalt."
(Helleland holds that history will show Norway to be right, even if there is a lot of criticism from heavy participants both nationally and internationally.)

The countries carrying out "protection" of children in the same way, will quite likely experience the same inferno of children and families being harmed and deprived of freedom which is taking place already not only in Norway but in the Western world. Good to see Helleland being so clear about what we will be exporting.

*

Aftenposten's journalist:
"Men hva sier du til kritikken som har kommet om at barn tas fra foreldre på sviktende grunnlag?"
(But what do you say to the criticism that has come about children being taken from parents on an untenable basis?)

Helleland:
"– Jeg ønsker debatten velkommen, men synes ikke at man ut fra enkeltmeneskers handlinger skal kunne dømme et helt system og lovverk. Det blir for enkelt, sier barneministeren."
(– I welcome the debate, but I don't think one should judge a whole system and legislation based on the actions of single individuals. That is too facile, says the children's minister.)

Really, too "facile"? It is probably rather too complicated for the Minister to have to face the fact that individual cases say a lot about the system and the legislation, and the courts' and Bufdir's and Barnevernet's practice – all of it stuff for which Helleland bears a strong responsibility? In addition, she carries some responsibility in each individual case, actually, a responsibility to see to it that the tragedies are brought to a stop.

Norway has equipped its power-invested people with the curious notion that one is not responsible for correcting what is wrong in individual cases, mistaken actions which are a result of the system functioning, whether or not the system was meant to function like that.

– My thoughts go to things like . Should it be of no concern to the French government and power elite of the time because they had "decided" that the justice system was wonderful? We remember that grave faults and lies were revealed both in the first and in the second court case.
"Evidence came to light in 1896—primarily through an investigation instigated by Georges Picquart, head of counter-espionage—identifying a French Army major named Ferdinand Walsin Esterhazy as the real culprit. After high-ranking military officials suppressed the new evidence, a military court unanimously acquitted Esterhazy after a trial lasting only two days. The Army then accused Dreyfus with additional charges based on falsified documents. Word of the military court's framing of Dreyfus and of an attempted cover-up began to spread, chiefly owing to J'Accuse…!, a vehement open letter published in a Paris newspaper in January 1898 by writer Émile Zola. Activists put pressure on the government to reopen the case."

*

[Helleland] "trekker frem mange angrep fra utenlandsk hold der man har tatt tak i en enkeltsak som blir presentert bare fra foreldrenes synspunkt, uten at man får vite hva som ligger til grunn for omsorgsovertagelsen."
([Helleland] She gives as an example [the] many attacks from foreign sources, in which a single case has been pulled out, presented only from the point of view of the parents, while one is not told what is the basis for the taking into care.)


And why "is one not told"?
Answer: Because the Norwegian mainstream press, true to the authorities, will not print facts but support the secrecy advocated and enforced by the authorities. The families have the documents, including the allegations of Barnevernet, and are in their full right to publish and make their cases known with their true content including what the actions of Barnevernet towards children and parents are. Now that we are so fortunate as to have the internet, the standard media come up with repeated attempts to denigrate the CPS victims, throwing suspicion on their accounts in social media and even have them made illegal.

If the CPS question is ever to be put wirht, the Norwegian public will have to stop believing trustfully in everything a politically correct newspaper prints, and must seek as much information as they can from the concerned families. There are more than enough of them to make the truth rather obvious.

*

"–Vi som lager og utarbeider loven, og barnevernsansatte som hver dag gjør en fantastisk jobb for sårbare barn, vet at det alltid kan skje feil. Vi prøver alt vi kan å forbedre tjenesten, systemet og omsorgen vi gir til barna og gjennomgår enkeltsaker for å redusere risiko for svikt."
(– We who make and work out the law, and child protection employees who every day do a fantastic job for vulnerable children, know that mistakes are always possible. We try all we can to improve the service, the system and the care we give to children, and we go through individual cases in order to reduce the possibility of failure.)

She trivialises to her heart's content, carefully avoiding doing the most important thing of all: acknowledge that first of all they must try to rectify whatever can be amended in the present catastrophes. Children who are in the power of Barnevernet must be set free and allowed to go back home to their families.

On average about 5 children flee Barnevernet's "care" every day. The first place Barnevernet sends the police to look for them is in the parents' home, and from there they are again taken by force.

*

To Aftenposten's question of whether she regrets having said no to meeting with the BBC's journalist, she replies e.g.:
" – Jeg vil ikke finne meg i å se på at man dømmer norsk barnevern ut fra grove feil som enkeltpersoner gjør. Det må de stå til rette for selv."
(– I will not put up with watching people judge Norwegian child protection on the basis of grave mistakes made by single individuals. For those they must answer themselves.)
and
"Mitt hovedanliggende er ikke hva som er best for BBC, men hensynet til barnets beste."
(My main objective is not what is best for the BBC, but the consideration for what is best for the child.)

The child psychiatrist concerned will probably have to answer to some degree for abuse pictures and films. But not towards the families to whose destruction he has contributed materially. To try to re-establish a reasonable life for them, parents and children, is the task of our authorities. Among other things they must be fully open towards the children about the authorities' own guilt for their tragedy – it has not been caused by the parents.

At this point in the interview, Helleland's self-control seems shaky and her answers ridiculous. It is not so often that government ministers show this degree of irritation towards the media. She trots out the old fairy tale of possessing the right interpretation of "the child's best interest"? What is that supposed to mean? Is she on the verge of not being able to win through with the usual child protection phrases?

*

"– Det er bare i 18 prosent av sakene det settes inn omsorgstiltak med tvang, påpeker hun."
(– Only in 18 per cent of the cases, forced care measures are being employed, she emphasises.)

Well, on Bufdir's page
Vel, på Bufdirs side (child protection statistics) we find something else. Bufdir has sections in English on its website, but I cannot find this particular information on it anywhere, so I translate from the Norwegian page:

"60 % av barn og unge med hjelp fra barnevernet mottok hjelpetiltak i hjemmet
For flertallet av barna og familiene som kommer i kontakt med barnevernet, er det tilstrekkelig med hjelpetiltak i hjemmet. Formålet med å sette i verk hjelpetiltak er å bidra til positiv endring hos barnet eller i familien. Ved utgangen av 2016 fikk 23 452 barn og unge i alderen 0–22 år hjelpetiltak i hjemmet. Dette utgjorde 60 % av barna med barnevernstiltak ved utgangen av 2016."

(60% of children and families with help from Barnevernet receive help measures in the home
For the majority of children and families who come into contact with Barnevernet, help measures in the home are sufficient. The purpose of starting help is to contribute to a positive change in the child or in the family. At the end of 2016 23,452 children and young between the ages of 0 and 22 received help in the home. This was 60% of children with help measures from the CPS at the end of 2016.)


"40 % av barn og unge med hjelp fra barnevernet var plassert utenfor hjemmet
Plassering av barn og unge utenfor hjemmet er bare aktuelt dersom barnevernets hjelpetiltak ikke er tilstrekkelig for å sikre barnet en forsvarlig omsorgssituasjon. Ved utgangen av 2016 var 15 820 barn og unge plassert utenfor hjemmet av barneverntjenesten. Disse utgjorde 40 % av barn og unge med tiltak fra barnevernet. Dette er en økning på 6 prosentpoeng fra 2003, da 34 % var plassert utenfor hjemmet."

(40 % of children and young with help from Barnevernet were placed outside the home
Placement of children and young outside the home is only considered if Barnevernet’s help measures are not sufficient to secure an acceptable care situation for the child. By the end of 2016, 15,820 children and you were placed outside the home by the Barnevernet service. These were 40% of children and young with measures from Barnevernet. This is an increase of 6% from 2003, when 34% were placed outside the home.)


Well well, there are plenty of statistics in this field, prevalence and incidence and new CPS children and averages and comparisons with other years and other countries. By and large such figures are unimportant; the important thing is to put a stop to the unreliable and sometimes plain untrue arguments and contentions used by the CPS to take children into forced care, even if it only happened in a single case!
    But about just these numbers from Bufdir, 40 and 60 per cent, I really believe they would need some clarification in comparison to Helleland's 18 per cent. – It is not only in extreme, rare cases that children are deprived of their parents and their home? In 40 per cent of the cases in which the CPS is active?

*

"– Det bekymrer meg at debatten i det offentlige rom preges av et hatforhold til barnevernet, og at barnevernsansatte blir utsatt for hets og trakassering, sier Helleland,"
(– It worries me that the debate in the public sphere is characterised by a hate-relationship to Barnevernet, and that Barnevern employees are being subjected to smear campaigns and harassment, says Helleland,)

She is not worried, then, for all the families who have been forcibly demolished by Barnevernet and other authorities cooperating with them.
    Indeed, the ones to have had hatred and harassment directed against them are first and foremost the parents and children over which Barnevernet wants power.

*

Helleland's strong statements about the system which she will not deviate an inch from, seem curious when she says:
"– Vi er opptatt av å gi foreldre større medvirkning og bedre muligheter til å bli hørt i sakene. Vi ønsker så langt det lar seg gjøre at barn blir boende hos sine biologiske foreldre, understreker hun."
(– We are concerned to give parents greater participation and better possibilities of being heard in the cases. We want, as far as possible, for children to stay with their biological parents, she underlines. )

Everybody who has observed Barnevernet for a long time knows that this is exactly what Barnevernet and every minister for children have fought against, tooth and nail, all through the years. It is not difficult to give authority and sensible power back to parents. One just has to stop Barnevernet from implementing their senseless fantasies about parents as the most dangerous there is for children. Reality is the opposite.

And then Helleland wants an "improvement of competence", more education, more of the same. But she thinks Barnevernet is so good already? And she wants to "invitere til et bredt anlagt debattmøte for å få innspill fra flere grupper" (issue an invitation to a broadly planned debate meeting in order to get suggestions from more groups).

Hmm, which groups? The state-financed NGOs? And why these eternal "debates" from which they "learn", but never learn enough to arrive at the road of common sense?

The Minister, who will absolutely not discuss individual cases, also says "vi .... gjennomgår enkeltsaker for å redusere risiko for svikt" (we go through individual cases in order to reduce the possibility of failure). I suppose this is a reference to the scrutinising of 100 cases which they very reluctantly consented to do and which is to drag on for several years? But they do not scrutinise in order to put right the miscarriages of justice found in so many such cases. No, it is the vague, general idea of being able to be more perfect in future case-handling.

*

Is this the top:

"– Et viktig spørsmål vi diskuterer, er hvordan prinsippene om rett til familieliv og barnets rett til beskyttelse skal veies opp mot hverandre. Regjeringen har ikke konkludert i dette spørsmålet, men jeg vurderer å ta inn i loven en ytterligere tydeliggjøring av barnets rett til beskyttelse."
(– An important question we are discussing, is how the principles of the right to family life and the child's right to protection are to be balanced against each other. The government has not concluded on this question, but I am considering taking into the text of the law an additionally clear formulation about the child's right to protection.)

They should not be balanced against each other. They are in the large, large majority of cases one and the same thing. Cases where this is not so should be handled by the police, and sufficient legislation exists already.

But now we know, indisputably. Linda Hofstad Helleland sees parents and home first and foremost as an arena of violence and abuse, and she wages war to "protect" children even more absolutely against their home.

That violence and abuse should be thought to be the, or a, major reason given by Barnevernet for taking children into care, we know to be untrue. Again the figures given vary, but such cases are in a decided minority. The study gives figures for major reasons for CPS interference in 2008: violence in the home 4.1% (it is not said clearly whether this includes or means violence against other persons than the children), and 3.1% for the sum of physical, mental and sexual abuse. To these relatively low figures we must add that it is known from quite a few cases that not all of Barnevernet's accusations of violence and abuse are true.

This deliberate misrepresentation: Helleland's twisting of the content of CPS cases into seeming to be generally about violent and abusive actions carried out by parents against their children, dominates the interview. It is Norway's great tragedy. Helleland is a tragedy for Norway.

   

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:52 pm 
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The interview with the Norwegian Minister of Children and Equality referred to above shows two things:

1) That the minister has no ambition or is not capable of handling the crisis within the Norwegian CPS.

2) That the government and the prime minister, through the appointment of Helleland as Minister of Children, does not have any real intentions of cleaning up the mess within the CPS.

In other areas of society, matters like this could easily have caused a government crisis.
But typically, the Norwegian CPS keeps on being an ongoing tragedy for the families and children who are affected, without any reasonable reaction from those responsible, and without anyone being held responsible.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:46 am 
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Erik Bryn Tvedt, lawyer:

(Who is taken care of in child protection cases?)
Aftenposten, 31 August 2018

"Statsråd Linda Helleland (H) i Barne- og likestillingsdepartementet tror Norge er et foregangsland når det gjelder å beskytte barn og unge mot overgrep, og uttaler at barns rettigheter er like mye verdt som foreldrenes. Mon tro det. Gjennom flere hundre barnevernssaker i fylkesnemnder og domstoler er det min erfaring at barns interesser i å tilhøre sin «flokk», sin slekt, ikke blir godt nok ivaretatt."
(Minister Linda Hellelend (the Convervative Party) of the Ministry of Children and Equaliry believes that Norway is a country leading the way as regards protecting children and youths against abuse, and says that the rights of children are as valuable as those of the parents. I wonder if that is so. Through several hundred child protection cases in county boards and courts I have drawn the experience that children's interest in belonging to their "flock", their kin, is not adequately taken care of.)

"Det burde jo være slik i en rettsstat at et akuttvedtak om å fjerne et barn fra hjemmet straks og innen 48 timer, som i fengslingssaker, ble brakt inn for retten. Barne- og likestillingsdepartementet forhindrer en effektiv og rettferdig behandling ved barnevernssaker."
(In a state under the rule of law, a decision to take a child acutely from its home should immediately and within 48 hours, like in imprisonment cases, be brought before a court. The Ministry of Children and Equality prevents an efficient and just procedure in child protection cases.)


(Note: Even if this comment is not mentioned in the list at the top, it is found further down on the page one clicks into, which is a collection of brief comments from 31 August.)

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:08 am 
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Nathalie H. Brinkmann, lawyer:

(The Minister disclaims all responsibility)
Aftenposten, 2 September 2018

"Barneministeren uttalte seg i onsdagens avis som om hun har foretatt en komparativ studie av verdens barnevernstjenester når hun blant annet hevder at norsk barnevern er best."
(What the Minister for children said in Wednesday's paper sounds as if she has carried out a comparative study of the child protection services of the world, when she among other things claims that Norwegian child protection is best.)

"Hva er det som tilsier at feilene i norsk barnevern er noe resten av verden vil takke oss for?"
(What is it that indicates that the errors in Norwegian child protection is something the rest of the world will thank us for?)

"Ministerens syn på feil og mangler i egne rekker synliggjør hvorfor det er vanskelig å forbedre dagens system."
(The Minister's views on errors and discrepancies within their own ranks makes it clear why it is difficult to improve today's system.)

"Hun konstaterer at hun er kjent med at det begås grove feil, men at hun som ansvarlig minister nekter å ta ansvaret for feilene der enkeltpersoner står bak. Det burde være unødvendig å påpeke at som ansatt i barnevernstjenesten representerer man etaten også de gangene man gjør grove feil."
(She states that she knows that serious errors are committed, but that she as the responsible minister refuses to take the responsibility for the errors which single persons have committed. It should be unnecessary to point out that as an employee of the child protection service one represents the service when one commits grave mistakes also.)

"Samtidig som ministeren fraskriver seg ansvaret for feilene som begås, er hun freidig nok til å bekrefte at det er igangsatt et «historisk kompetanseløft» for barnevernet. Således vedgår hun likevel at dagens situasjon er lite holdbar, uten å fornærme etaten som sådan."
(At the same time that the Minister disclaims responsibility for errors which are committed, she is fresh enough to confirm that a "historical lifting of competence" has been set in motion for the child protection service. After all, then, she admits that today's situation is hardly tenable, without insulting the service as such.)

"Barnevernspedagogene må innse at de kan ikke hjelpe et barn uten å hjelpe den familien barnet er en del av."
(The child protection workers must face the fact that they cannot help children without helping the family which the child is part of.)

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:29 am 
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Linda Hofstad Helleland, Minister of Children and Equality:

(I am proud of Norwegian child protection)
Barnevernet i Norge er blant de fremste i verden til å ivareta og beskytte barn. Ansatte i barnevernet fortjener honnør og ikke daglige trusler for den krevende jobben de gjør.
(Barnevernet in Norway is among the foremost in the world in taking care of and protecting children. Employees in Barnevernet deserve credit and not daily threats for the demanding job they do.)
Dagbladet, 4 September 2018


Helleland harps on her twisted views and her distortions.

" Felles for store deler av kritikken er at den er basert på enkeltsaker, der foreldrene ofte er de eneste som kommer til orde."
(A common denominator for a lot of the criticism is that it is based on individual cases, the parents often being the only ones who get a word in.)

No, much of the criticism is general and goes both further and deeper than to accidental individual cases. It takes up statistics, history, and biological and psychological questions relating to child protection.
    Furthermore, if there is somebody who is allowed to get a word in, it is certainly the state's enthusiasts! They may be upset because they are not in addition able to dominate facebook groups established to get the victims' stories across?

*

"Vi får ofte presentert saker om tvang og omsorgsovertakelse, men i realiteten er det kun et fåtall familier som opplever tvang."
(We are often presented with cases about force and taking-into-care, but in reality only a few families experience force.)

Firstly, the force and the takings-into-care are by far the most serious. And the small minority? Even she herself gives the figure of 18 per cent in the Aftenposten interview, and according to Bufdir's statistics it is 40 percent! Cf .

"De aller fleste familiene som mottar hjelp, får frivillige hjelpetiltak."
(The great majority of families receiving help get voluntary help measures.)

Many such measures are in reality voluntary force. Families know that the "help" does not render help, but they also know that if they do not say yes to receiving it, the children will be taken. The moment Barnevernet's power were to be taken away, we would also get to see what their help measures are worth. They are not as wonderful as Helleland will have it sound.

*

"Der det oppstår konflikt mellom interessene til barnet og foreldrene, skal vi være på barnets side."
(When a conflict arises between the interests of the child and the parents, we shall be on the child's side.)

The problem is that Barnevernet is the one who decides whether there is such a conflict. Helleland makes little of the big issues, issues like: Is Barnevernet telling the truth and do they assess matters correctly and realistically? We know enough to be able to say that the answer is "no".

*

"Feil skjer dessverre også i barnevernet. Det blir gjort feilvurderinger. Barn får ikke alltid hjelp tidlig nok. Tilsyn viser at barn og foreldre ikke alltid opplever at barnevernet lytter til dem, og enkeltsaker viser at tiltakene som har vært brukt ikke virker. Vi kan aldri stoppe opp, det er alltid behov for forbedringer."
(Errors happen in Barnevernet too, unfortunately. There are erroneous assessments. Children do not always receive help early enough. Inspection shows that children and parents do not always have the experience of Barnevernet listening to them, and individual cases show the measures used not to have had effect. We can never stop, there is always room for improvement.)

A blatant trivialising of the "errors". "Do not always have the experience of ..."? What can one say about such misrepresentation? And erroneous assessments largely consisting of children not "receiving help" early enough? In what way can that be held up against Barnevernet itself creating tragedies, early and late?

*

When Helleland writes
"Målet er at flest mulig barn skal vokse opp sammen med sine foreldre."
(The goal is that as many children as possible grow up together with their parents)
it is simply staggering. She certainly has a gift of grace! To present growing up with one's parents as if that is something Barnevernet will facilitate, something children will not be able to get unless Barnevernet gets it for them? Does Helleland live in the real world at all?

*

She is doing what Bufdir did in the days when Solveig Horne was Children's Minister too. They want the GOOD stories to be told and dominate the media. Helleland:

"Jeg er ikke redd for debatt om norsk barnevern, men håper at vi også kan få fram historier om alt det gode arbeidet barnevernet gjør for å beskytte barn hver eneste dag."
(I am not afraid of debates about Norwegian child protection, but I hope that we can also get the stories out about all the good work Barnevernet does to protect children every day.)

An everlasting debate, resulting in nothing for the victims of the present regime? A debate in which Barnevernet keeps saying that "Oh yes, that was food for thought" and "we will learn from it, for the future"?

Oh no, Helleland does not have to be afraid, as long as the reality is that she closes her eyes and ears for truth. She will not then have the experience of having to face what she and Barnevernet are causing.

I think it was actually who said it first, in a discussion of precisely this cosy-story-telling technique, that it is just like having an airoplane accident investigation board eagerly investigating every flight that went well.

    

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:10 am 
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Einar C. Salvesen:

(Propaganda or realities about Norwegian CPS?)
Lover og regelverk kan ha de beste intensjoner, men er avhengig av forvaltningskvalitet, og det er den som svikter.
(Laws and rules systems can have the best of intentions, but are dependent on quality in execution, and that is failing here.)
Aftenposten, 6 september 2018

"«Andre land vil se til Norge», sier barne- og likestillingsminister Linda Hofstad Helleland i intervju med Aftenposten. Slik snakker bare en minister som er satt til å styre et system hun ikke har hatt nærkontakt med. Vi er tusener av mennesker, fagfolk og lekfolk som har opplevd systemet fra innsiden, og erfart en annen virkelighet enn det ministeren prøver å fremstille."
('Other countries will look to Norway', says Child and Equality Minister Linda Hofstad Helleland in an Aftenposten interview. Only a Minister made to govern a system she has not been in close touch with talks in this way. We are thousands of people, experts and laymen, who have had experience of the system from the inside, and have met a different reality from the one the Minister tries to depict.)

"I de fleste saker som fører til omsorgsovertagelser er det heller ikke spørsmål om vold og overgrep, men finmåling av omsorg i fokus. Oppfatninger og synsing ut fra saksbehandlers og det enkelte barnevernskontors personlige preferanser og livshorisont kan her avgjøre hva som er god nok omsorg. Det mangesidige og nyanserte nett som menneskelige relasjoner og tilhørighet innebærer, kan bli feid over med lettvinte fortolkninger og misbruk av psykologisk teori."
(Nor is it in most cases leading to taking-into-care a question of violence and abuse, but a measurement in detail of care which is in focus. Beliefs and opinions on the basis of the case officer's and the individual child protection office's personal preferences and view of life can decide what is good enough care. The many-sided and nuanced net which human relations and belonging entails can be passed over with easy interpretations and misuse of psychological theory.)

"Omsorgsovertagelsens pris er skyhøy. Barn i fosterhjem mister kontakt med nettverk, blir utsatt for en traumatiserende samværsordning og har dårlig prognose. Gevinsten med å holde familien sammen er åpenbar."
(The price of taking into care is sky high. Children in foster homes lose contact with their network, are exposed to a traumatising visitation arrangement, and have bad pognosis. The gain of keeping the family together is obvious.)


I believe I have rarely seen as good a formulation: The price of taking into care is sky high.
It goes straight to the heart of the matter!

It is also possible that we can see in relation to this. The judgment has e.g a reference to the CPS having given as a reason for the foster placement of Jansen's daughter the need for a special type of care, viz 'development-enhancing' care – the invention of the Raundalen committee (cf ). It means: One has declared that children do not need parents, what they need is any "care-giving person" who can give it a stimulating and safe environment. Now Strasbourg has come up with a judgment which says no to all this nonsense: Children need contact with their own parents. We must hope, hope, hope that it is not accidental in this judgment, but rather that the Court in Strasbourg has seen that the whole quackery must go.

So yes, taking into care has a price to be paid, and it is sky high!

Bravo to Salvesen!

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:20 pm 
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Olav Terje Bergo:

When children and parents are the target of gross misjudgement and abuse of power, they are completely within their rights to let it be known.
MHS's home page, 8 September 2018


Translation of Norwegian article published originally in Bergens Tidende on 4/5 September 2018.

  

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