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FORUMET REDD VÅRE BARN • View topic - BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
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 Post subject: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:37 am 
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BBC documentary

Tim Whewell:

Video
Jacqueline Jonquille, on youtube, 17 April 2016


Tim Whewell:

BBC News Magazine, 14 April 2016


The video is also found here:


Norway, Return the Children to Bodnariu Family, 20 April 2016


Traditionalism Archive, 16 April 2016


  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:06 am 
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The newspaper Dagbladet has woken up today 4 August 2018 and features the BBC documentary:

(This is the way the tv world gets to see Barnevernet: "Norway's hidden scandal")
BBC: - Mer støy om barnevernssaker i Norge enn andre land." (BBC: – More noise about cps cases in Norway than in other countries.)
Dagbladet, 4 August 2018


The Ministry's reply to the request for an interview is in itself a striking illustration of how they carry on.
  
  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:39 am 
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A couple of postings of the tv documentary on youtube already:



Step up 4 Children's Rights, on youtube, 4 August 2018


Josh Pham, on youtube, 4 August 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:35 pm 
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An article from NTB, the Norwegian national news bureau. Published by several newspapers and websites in whole or in part, or referred to:

NTB:
(Helleland would not give a comment to the BBC documentary about Norwegian child protection)
Resett.no, 5 August 2018

Linda Hofstad Helleland is the Minister for Children and Equality.

*

(BBC with documentary about Norwegian child protection)
Journalisten, 5 August 2018

(Children's Minister Linda Hofstad Helleland would not comment on a BBC documentary about Norwegian child protection)
Nettavisen, 5 August 2018


Bergens Tidende, 5 August 2018

(Documentary about Norwegian child protection)
NRK, 5 August 2018


Dagen, 5 August 2018


Senaste, 5 August 2018


SOL.no, 5 August 2018


abc nyheter, 5 August 2018


Norway News on Twitter, 5 August 2018


Nyhetspressen, 5 August 2018

(Everything about the case – The most important articles)
Google Nyheter, 4 - 6 August 2018


ON 4 US, 5 August 2018
  

Haugesunds Avis, 5 August 2018


webavisen, 5 August 2018


Resett, på facebook, 5 August 2018


Barnefjern, 3 august 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:24 pm 
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Outside Norway:



Stitcher, 2 August 2018


Ásperos episodios en un país al que la ONU considera casi ideal para criar hijos.
Mundo, 3 August 2018


Rodina.cz, 3 August 2018


The UN rates Norway one of the best countries for a child to grow up in. And yet too many children, according to a large number of Norwegian experts, are taken into care without good reason. The conviction of a top psychiatrist in the child protection system for downloading child abuse images is now raising further serious questions.
Holliegreigjustice, 5 August 2018


The conviction of a prominent expert in Norway's troubled child protection system - for downloading images of child sex abuse - has put the organisation under scrutiny once again.
PlayerFM, 2 August 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:09 am 
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TNP – The Nordic Page, 7 August 2018

Brief, but matter-of-fact report about the BBC documentary, except that TNP could have desisted from writing "suggested" here:

"The psychiatrist had been used as an expert, until his arrest in April this year, by Norway’s controversial child protection system and was involved in decisions about whether children should be removed from their parents, suggested the program."

They only have to read . It is not just about something the BBC program "suggests". (The NTB article's "mener" is evidently the origin, by NTB no doubt introduced in order to protect themselves and Norwegian authorities.)

    

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:58 am 
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The leader of the Commision has an interesting statement:


"It is reasonable to question if his expert opionions has been affected by his private situation. For example if he to a great extent has partied with parents in cases of abuse, says Koch".
("– Det er et rimelig spørsmål å stille om hans generelle faglige vurderingsevne har vært påvirket av hans private situasjon. For eksempel om han i stor grad har tatt foreldrenes parti i overgrepssaker, sier Koch. ")


Koch in this way tries to lead our thoughts towards the conclusion that the bias has been in favor of parents, and not against them.

This is a way of reasoning that is completely taken out of the blue. We have in fact no knowledge of how his secret and ongoing crime has affected his work through all these years. We only know that this great lack of judgement must have influenced his work in one way or another, and maybe in different ways in different cases.

In some cases he seems to have had a bias against parents.

In life in general, my experience is that people who have their own struggles can sometimes be surprisingly harsh on other people that have had much of the same challenges in their lives. And sometimes it is opposite.

Never the less there is - as far as I know - no evidence that the convicted psychiatrist has been soft on any parents, or that he has had a bias in favor of parents, in cases in which he has been involved.

Koch`s statement can be interpreted as an attempt to calm and tone down the importance of the rotten egg that she has had in her basket.

And by the way, how biased is Koch herself?

Very biased of course. As a leader of a commision that has been scandalized and ridiculed, she has herself looked through some documents and concluded that there has been no misjudgements. Everything is in order!

And thereby made it clear that her own judgment of bias and how she herself might be affected is completely absent.

This is not convincing.

The psychiatrist`s work in the commision should obviously be investigated by independant individuals.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Some comments to the documentary and especially to the Norwegian reactions. (Some of it repeats "Three interesting articles" above.)

Marianne Haslev Skånland:

MHS's home page, 15 August 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:11 am 
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Good article analysing particularly what Reidar Hjermann and Thore Langfeldt say in the documentary:

Margaret Hennum:

(Norway's dehumanising strategy, part 9)
Margaret Hennum, on facebook, 9 August 2018


Google Translate barely works for this piece; much of the sense disappears. It may have something to do with Margaret's writing in her west coast dialect, but one would have thought that the people working on translation to and from Norwegian for Google would have done slightly better.

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:32 pm 
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Hege Dahl:

MHS's home page, 17 August 2018

The article is a comment on an article in Dagbladet on 16 August, which concerns the BBC documentary.

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:16 am 
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A defender of the system:

Ben McPherson:

Aftenposten 16 August 2018


"... and I’m married to someone who works at Bufdir, the directorate which provides guidance to the Child Protection Service (Barnevernet). ...
....
I wish you’d pointed out that children are almost only removed from their parents in cases of violence or sexual abuse, or due to psychiatric problems or substance abuse. This information is freely available."


His information is not so good. These claims about causes are what is very freely available, because they are dished out incessantly by our authorities and Barnevernet itself. Reality is that they are not even the most frequently alleged causes for taking a child from its parents. There is a difference between general principles and what takes place in the real world.

*

"You claim that Norwegian parents increasingly distrust the state. I couldn’t find a basis for this claim, beyond the words of Cecilia and Inez, both of whom lost their children to Barnevernet."

This formulation about the two interviewed mothers is very derogatory, as if the reason given to separate the children from them, was automatically right. McPherson also trivialises the question of whether the reason was correct:
"Whether or not the Child Protection Service acted with excessive zeal in these two cases, it’s hardly surprising that both are suspicious of the service."

*

You glossed over the fact that in most cases Barnevernet works with families to ensure that they don’t have to remove children, and that they invest huge resources in teaching parents the skills they lack.
    It’s hardly surprising that the system will work less well in cases where parents refuse that help.


There is a difference between what Barnevernet says and what they in fact do. We do know this "work". A lot of pressure which is unreasonable, monitoring, allegations of details made out by Barnevernet to be serious, force used e.g to let one's family be installed in "mothers' homes" / "family centres", to be "evaluated" by psychologists. All of it tends to lead to the children being taken after a while.

*

"It’s good that you have added to that debate. I only wish you weren’t — unintentionally — feeding a narrative that Norway is anti-family and anti-Christian."

Quite right, Norway is not anti-Christian. But leading Christian circles in Norway swear by Barnevernet, the state, and close to blind discipline under the state and an unquestioning belief in it. This is especially the case in groups which dominate in Kristelig Folkeparti (the Christian Democratic Party), which is represented in Parliament, and in the newspapers Vårt Land and Dagen. Opposition to this state admiration exists, but it is often branded by many who think on the lines of McPherson as having as their central tenet a right to hit children. The core of their belief is perhaps rather that children have a right not to be deprived of their parents unless this punishment – for it is indeed a very serious punishment against a child – is proportionate, has a sensible relation to the offense, and is beyond question based on truth about every aspect of the case.

*


McPherson's article has also been published in Norwegian:

  
  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:55 am 
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The role of the Expert Commission on Children and the Ministry's plans


An article in Aftenposten does not seem to be on the internet:

Overgrepsdømt sakkyndig i barnevernssaker – nå kan sakene bli ettergått på nytt
(Expert in child protection cases found guilty of abuse – now the cases may be re-examined)
Departementet vurderer om det er grunnlag for ytterligere oppfølging av barnevernssakene der den dømte barne- og ungdomspsykiaterern har vært sakkyndig.
(The Ministry considers whether there is reason for further follow-up of the child protection cases in which the sentenced child and youth psychiatrist has functioned as an expert.)
Aftenposten, 18 August 2018


What the Ministry thinks and wants is unclear. On the one hand we are told:

" – Departementet vurderer nå hva som bør gjøres, og om det er grunnlag for ytterligere oppfølging. Det sier Kai Agnar Finsnes, konstituert ekspedisjonssjef i barnevernsavdelingen i Barne- og likestillingsdepartementet på spørsmål om departementet vil ta initiativ til å gjennomgå barnevernssakene der den dømte barne- og ungdomspsykiateren har vært sakkyndig."
(The Ministry is now considering what ought to be done, and whether there is a basis for further follow-up, says Kai Agnar Finsnes, temporarily appointed Director of the child protection section in the Ministry for children and equality, when asked whether the Ministry will take an initiative to go through the child protection cases for which the sentenced child and youth psychiatrist has functioned as an expert.)
  
But he continues:

"Vi er tilfreds med at Barnesakkyndig kommisjon (BSK) har gått gjennom et utvalg barnevernssaker som barnepsykiateren har hatt til vurdering. Vi registrerer at BSK har funnet at hans vurderinger ikke skiller seg vesentlig fra de andre medlemmenes vurderinger i de samme sakene, sier han."
(We are satisfied the Expert Commission on Children (ECC) has gone through a selection of child protection cases which have been evaluated by the child psychiatrist. We take note of the ECC's findings that his evaluations are not markedly different from those of other members' evaluations in the same cases, he says.)


It is quite a question whether the Ministry's satisfaction should not be turned around into a different observation:
    The evaluations of the members of the Expert Commission on Children are to a remarkable degree of the same type as the evaluations of a child psychiatrist who has had as his usual hobby the downloading and viewing of pictures and films in which sexual abuse of children takes place, and who in court was primarily concerned with his own position as having been found out and now being stigmatised (this is clear from the ).

*

The article finally turned up on the internet late Sunday night. It was dated the 18th in the paper version; on the web it is dated the 19th and has a slightly different title and some other changes, but is clearly the same article:

(Expert psychiatrist sentenced for downloading of abuse films: The Ministry considers whether child protection cases are to be re-opened)
Aftenposten, 19 August 2018

  

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:30 pm 
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This is so far the Expert Commision investigating itself. It is by no means good enough.

The commision leader probably hopes to silence the critics by doing her own evaluation and stating that everything is in order?

It is quite ridiculous actually. A scandal has hit the Commision where it hurts, and they attempt to get away with it after reading through some reports done by the convicted?

The psychiatrist's work needs to be analyzed by completety independant individuals.

Nothing else should be accepted.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 216, 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:29 am 
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(Kari Killén (84) has done research on care failure since the 1960s
Lack of professional understanding in Barnevernet weakens security under the law)
Aftenposten, 19 August 2018

Incredible lack of insight. Killén charges on in the same direction that she has always done, plus eagerness for more competence, more psychiatry, more inter-professional cooperation, more education about all sorts of care failure.

Just like previously, an absence of understanding children's connectedness to their parents. She also lacks, still, any realisation of her self having been a leader in bringing Norwegian Barnevern into the quagmire it is in, that which is being inflicted on people in our society today. On the contrary, she now eagerly lectures to child protection employees and other establishments, and is very popular as a lecturer in such circles. Those who believe that Barnevernet will now take a new direction due to the large amount of criticism and protests and scandalous cases being exposed, should take note.

This propaganda from Killén is furthered solidly by Aftenposten, with no misgivings. They support the authorities' continuation of child protection in the same way as before, with new family destructions and tragedies especially for the children, actions brought on them by people who think like Killén.

*

27 August 2018:
Cf  

    

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentaries: Parents against the State. 2016, 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:00 pm 
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 Excellent: BBC has put out the documentary on youtube themselves. So now there are, hopefully, several versions out, making it less probably that they all disappear from the web. 



BBC Newsnight, 6 August 2018


"Norway's Silent Scandal
Subscribe to our channel here: https://goo.gl/31Q53F

In April this year, a highly respected Norwegian child psychiatrist was convicted of downloading thousands of images of child pornography. The psychiatrist had been used as an expert, until his arrest, by Norway's controversial child protection system and was involved in decisions about whether children should be removed from their parents. Campaigners in Norway have long accused the system of removing children from their parents without justification and now, despite the serious nature of this man's offence, the authorities are refusing to review the child protection cases he gave evidence in. For Our World, Tim Whewell has been to Norway to try to discover why child protection in one of the world's wealthiest countries appears to be in crisis. This programme video adult themes.

Newsnight is the BBC's flagship news and current affairs TV programme - with analysis, debate, exclusives, and robust interviews.

Website: https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsnight
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bbcnewsnight"


  

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