It is currently Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:01 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary 2016
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:37 am 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
  

BBC documentary

Tim Whewell:
Parents Against the State. Documentary 2016
Video
Jacqueline Jonquille, on youtube, 17 April 2016


Tim Whewell:
Norway's Barnevernet: They took our four children... then the baby
BBC News Magazine, 14 April 2016


The video is also found here:

Norway: Parents Against the State
Norway, Return the Children to Bodnariu Family, 20 April 2016

Norway: Parents Against the State (Our World, 16/4/16)
Traditionalism Archive, 16 April 2016


  

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:27 pm 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
  

New documentary in July / August 2018 about Barnevern questions, this time concentrated around the Brøyn case:

Tim Whewell:
Norway's hidden scandal
BBC.co.uk, 2 August 2018
(radio version)

Norway's hidden scandal
(text)

(An alternative title is also given: "Norway's silent scandal".)


TV times:
BBC World News GMT (so +2 for Norway)
Saturday 4th August – 12:30
Sunday 5th August – 00:30
Sunday 5th August – 07:30
Sunday 5th August – 19:30
Tuesday 7th August - 08:00
Friday 17th August - 08:00

**

Norwegian article about the program:

Jan Simonsen:
BBC med ny dokumentar om barnevernet: "Norges skjulte skandale" (BBC with a new documentary about Barnevernet: "Norway's hidden scandal")
Resett.no, 3 August 2018

*

BBC's own trailer for the radio programme:

Crossing Continents
Norway's Silent Scandal
The conviction of a prominent expert in Norway's troubled child protection system - for downloading images of child sex abuse - has put the organisation under scrutiny once again. In April this year a child psychiatrist was convicted of downloading thousands of the images on his computer. Up until his arrest he played a key role in decisions about whether children should be separated from their parents for their own good. But there has been no public discussion in Norway about the implications of his conviction, no outrage in the newspapers, no plans to review cases he was involved in - even though the country's child protection agency, Barnevernet, has been much criticised in recent years for removing children from their families without justification. In April 2016 Tim Whewell reported on the story for Crossing Continents after Barnevernet attracted an international storm of protest over its child protection policies. Tim now returns to Norway to report on this extraordinary twist in the story and to find out why child protection in one of the world's wealthiest countries appears to be in crisis.
Produced and Reported by Tim Whewell.


*
  

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:06 am 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
  


The newspaper Dagbladet has woken up today 4 August 2018 and features the BBC documentary:

"Slik får tv-verden se barnevernet: «Norges skjulte skandale» (This is the way the tv world gets to see Barnevernet: "Norway's hidden scandal")
BBC: - Mer støy om barnevernssaker i Norge enn andre land." (BBC: – More noise about cps cases in Norway than in other countries.)
Dagbladet, 4 August 2018


The Ministry's reply to the request for an interview is in itself a striking illustration of how they carry on.
  
  

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:39 am 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
  

A couple of postings of the tv documentary on youtube already:


Norway's Silent Scandal (BBC - Our World, 2018)
Step up 4 Children's Rights, on youtube, 4 August 2018

BBC Our World - Norway's Silent Scandal (HD Documentary)
Josh Pham, on youtube, 4 August 2018

  

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:35 pm 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
  

An article from NTB, the Norwegian national news bureau. Published by several newspapers and websites in whole or in part, or referred to:

NTB:
Helleland ville ikke gi kommentar til BBC-dokumentar om norsk barnevern (Helleland would not give a comment to the BBC documentary about Norwegian child protection)
Resett.no, 5 August 2018

Linda Hofstad Helleland is the Minister for Children and Equality.

*

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern (BBC with documentary about Norwegian child protection)
Journalisten, 5 August 2018

Barneminister Linda Hofstad Helleland ville ikke kommentere BBC-dokumentar om norsk barnevern (Children's Minister Linda Hofstad Helleland would not comment on a BBC documentary about Norwegian child protection)
Nettavisen, 5 August 2018

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Bergens Tidende, 5 August 2018

Dokumentar om norsk barnevern (Documentary about Norwegian child protection)
NRK, 5 August 2018

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Dagen, 5 August 2018

Dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Senaste, 5 August 2018

Barneminister Linda Hofstad Helleland ville ikke kommentere BBC-dokumentar om norsk barnevern
SOL.no, 5 August 2018

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
abc nyheter, 5 August 2018

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Norway News on Twitter, 5 August 2018

Dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Nyhetspressen, 5 August 2018

Alt om saken – De viktigste artiklene (Everything about the case – The most important articles)
Google Nyheter, 4 - 6 August 2018

Barneminister Linda Hofstad Helleland ville ikke kommentere BBC-dokumentar om norsk barnevern
ON 4 US, 5 August 2018
  
BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Haugesunds Avis, 5 August 2018

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
webavisen, 5 August 2018

Helleland vil ikke gi kommentar til BBC-dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Resett, på facebook, 5 August 2018

Norway's Hidden Scandal
Leen's story

Barnefjern, 3 august 2018

  

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:24 pm 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
    

Outside Norway:


The Documentary Podcast: Norway's Silent Scandal
Stitcher, 2 August 2018

Un trabajo de la BBC
El escándalo oculto de Noruega: fotos y videos de menores abusados, familias separadas y un servicio estatal cuestionado

Ásperos episodios en un país al que la ONU considera casi ideal para criar hijos.
Mundo, 3 August 2018

BBC o norském systému týrající děti a ničící rodiny
Rodina.cz, 3 August 2018

snps named person ..norway style
The UN rates Norway one of the best countries for a child to grow up in. And yet too many children, according to a large number of Norwegian experts, are taken into care without good reason. The conviction of a top psychiatrist in the child protection system for downloading child abuse images is now raising further serious questions.
Holliegreigjustice, 5 August 2018

Norway's Silent Scandal
The conviction of a prominent expert in Norway's troubled child protection system - for downloading images of child sex abuse - has put the organisation under scrutiny once again.
PlayerFM, 2 August 2018

  

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:09 am 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
  

BBC Documentary Features A Scandal about Norway’s Child Welfare Service
TNP – The Nordic Page, 7 August 2018

Brief, but matter-of-fact report about the BBC documentary, except that TNP could have desisted from writing "suggested" here:

"The psychiatrist had been used as an expert, until his arrest in April this year, by Norway’s controversial child protection system and was involved in decisions about whether children should be removed from their parents, suggested the program."

They only have to read the judgment against Brøyn. It is not just about something the BBC program "suggests". (The NTB article's "mener" is evidently the origin, by NTB no doubt introduced in order to protect themselves and Norwegian authorities.)

    

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:49 am 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
  

Three interesting articles in Norwegian in Dagbladet and Aftenposten regarding the BBC documentary:

*

Reidar Hjermann, specialist psychologist, former Children's Ombudsman
Dette burde du sagt til BBC, Helleland (This is what you should have said to BBC, Helleland)
Dagbladet, 7 August 2018

Hjermann is a Children's Ombudsman from not so many years ago. He wants to be Minister for Children and Equality Linda Hofstad Helleland's communications advisor for a minute and thinks she should have given the BBC one of the usual, airy replies (my translation here and below) to questions concerning the convicted child psychiatrist who has evaluated the work of other psychologists, and concerning Silje Garmo's asylum application in Poland:

"While I am unable to say anything about the concrete cases you point to, I can say that Barnevernet is the most important, but also one of the most complicated help systems we have for children and families in Norway. Because these are people working with people in very complex cases full of conflict, there will once in a while be things done which we afterwards see to have been wrong. This is implicit in the essence of the discipline/profession, and we must to some degree expect deviance to occur. Therefore, we must in all these cases turn every stone in order to see what could have been done differently, so that we get to have a child protection service which is developing all the time, a child protection service which even further strengthens Norway as the world's best and safest place for children to live."

In other words, Mr Hjermann thinks that representatives for the child protection system assuring us, while keeping their eyes closed to the realities of individual cases, that the system is fine, constitutes proof. And he thinks that Whewell of BBC, plus viewers around the world, will surely be satisfied and conclude that Norway has a child protection service which makes this the world's best and safest place for children to live.
   Well, who knows, lots of people may bow to the assurances of one having had the experience of children's ombudsman. He may have underestimated BBC, however, as may also the Ministry's Mr Ostling, see below.

Some considerable naïveté and superciliousness ( – stronger terms even might be apposite) may be recognised in the attitude of this psychologist-ombudsman. But he is in fact hardly more extreme than the rest of our establishment in Norway. A degree of mania about "Norway Norway" has gripped them ever since we started pumping oil from the North Sea and got super rich.

*


«Norges skjulte skandale» fortsetter i tingretten ('Norway's hidden scandal' continues in the District Court)
Mors advokat: - TV-seere i Sør-Afrika, Nederland, Tyskland og England har tatt kontakt etter BBC-programmet. (The mother's lawyer: – TV viewers in South Africa, the Netherlands, Germany and England have made contact after the BBC program.)
Dagbladet, 10 August 2018

This article brings further details about the case of Inez in the program, from Tønsberg in Vestfold county, in which also the convicted child psychiatrist Jo Erik Brøyn has been involved as an evaluator. It links to an article back in 2016, with the title "The mother must admit violence she has been acquitted of before Barnevernet will consider giving the children back to her".

The municipality's lawyer Simen Tveten says, non-committedly, that he "understands" that the credibility of the now convicted expert is lessened.

The spokesman in Parliament for the Socialist Left Party (SV) on family politics, Freddy Andre Øvstegård, agrees with Hjermann, and says that Helleland's silence is "a betrayal of all the competent experts working in Barnevernet who are subject to massive pressure, and of all the children who depend on Barnevernet's protection." He also says (!) that Helleland should have answered that "Norway takes individual cases seriously and defends the important job the child protection service and the employeed do". To all the people who have experienced the "We cannot go into individual cases" reply when they in their despair have begged politicians to do something about the way Barnevernet has treated their cases, the two parts of Mr Øvstegård's statement contradict each other considerably.

And here is the assistant director of Bufdir (the section of the Ministry concerned with Barnevernet), Mr Kjetil A. Ostling, confirming that the state indeed, regardless of understanding that there is some "pressure", intends to continue the irresponsibility of refusing to do anything about individual cases:

"– As expert directorate for Barnevernet, we do not know individual cases and can therefore not say anything about them. Takings into care are often difficult and complex cases with a strong emotional commitment, and reticence should be shown in such cases both by the press and by individual persons."

Mr Ostling continues by venting a not-so-hidden contempt on those who criticise ("it is important to differentiate constructive criticism from personally perceived offences and special agendas") and on BBC, which has allowed "individuals with a strong and wellknown commitment against Barnevernet to make themselves heard".

*


Sakkyndig psykiater dømt for nedlasting av overgrepsfilmer: – Barnevernet bør se på sakene på nytt, mener kommisjonsleder.  (Expert psychiatrist convicted for downloading of abuse films: – Barnevernet should look at the cases again, says Commission leader.)
Den erfarne psykiateren var med på å bestemme om foreldre fikk beholde barna sine. Samtidig lastet han ned store mengder overgrepsbilder.
(The experienced psychiatrist took part in deciding whether parents should keep their children. At the same time he downloaded great quantities of abuse pictures.)
Aftenposten, 10 August 2018

Sounds nice that the Expert Commission on Children (ECC – Barnesakkyndig Kommisjon) takes the initiative to re-examine reports. However, the text makes clear that all they do is to check the reports against purely formal rules, and with the "self-evident" basis of a belief in the general competence and rightness of the decisions dished out by the ECC. They do not go into the facts of the cases. First of all, they would have to have all the case documents, and they do not have them. Secondly (very ominous to the whole psychological/psychiatric profession and to Barnevernet as a whole), they would have to go into the real facts, which would also imply talking with the private parties and valuing their truthfulness on the same level as they would have to do that of the Barnevernet industry. The basic problem is still there: All these people, and indeed the mainstream media in Norway, take it for granted that public employees are truthful and competent and that what they do is good for people.

Psychologist Katrin Koch, the leader of the ECC, is wonderfully revealing when she  says;
" – There are about 25 cases for which I have gone into whether his assessmwents deviate from that of other members.
–  It is a reasonable question to pose whether his general expert judgment ability has been influenced by his private situation. For examples if he has to a large extent taken the parents' side in abuse cases.
–  I found nothing like that, his assessments are not generally different from those of the other members."


Exactly! They all come up with the same kind of assessments of whether children should be taken away from their parents. The only worry the people in the ECC can se regarding Brøyn, is whether he can be suspected of having sided with parents! And no mention of the dismal results which child protection care has – generally. General facts our generality-loving authorities otherwise speak of like automatons. Just not this one, however, they carefully avoid ever to mention it.
Cf
Educating the young – better through cooperation with the child protection agency (CPS)?
20 December 2014

Cf also the research referred to in this article:
Sverre Kvilhaug:
Barnevernet i Norge – Befringutvalget
Internasjonal barnevernforskning av betydning for spørsmålet om omsorgsovertakelse er til barnets beste
(Child protection in Norway – The Befring Committee. The importance of international child protection research for the question of whether taking into care is in the best interest of the child)
7 June 2000

Hilarious Norway! Everything is all right, according to Katrin Koch and all the others, provided they all do the same and all think the same, and do not by any chance take parents seriously.

Here is Mr Ostling of Bufdir, in the same vein:
He is interviewed in Aftenposten too, and once again conveys that every aspect of the Norwegian system is excellent – in general. Very revealing of the general business of the Barnevernet industry on all levels is this statement, as to whether especially the cases in which Brøyn has taken part should be reconsidered:
" – We have not considered it, and have no basis for saying anything about it. At the same time we take note of the fact that the ECC has gone through a number of cases and have found that the convicted psychiatrist's assessments do not deviate from that of other members' assessments".

Ostling even has the courage to claim that
"– Generally there is a very high degree of security of rule of law in Norway. Cases involving taking into care are often tried before courts on several levels after being treated in the County Boards. All of these instances have thorough processes.
– A high expert quality on all levels of the case handling is to secure the children of rule of law and of security. At the same time faults may occur. Therefore, the services in the municipalities are also to be subject to quality control from the state's authorities and critical journalism."

Control from the state's authorities and critical journalism? Journalism critical of all information from anybody other than the state's authorities, journalism directed by Bufdir & co about what to think and say, and to, every time, accept that they will not "go into individual cases" but that they are all all right and that the system guarantees it?
    It's like hearing functionaries of the state in Eastern Europe under communism talk.

*


These articles, especially seen together, make it quite possible for thinking people to begin to see the sorry reality of a destructive and oppressive system which Norwegian child protection is, from the bottom and up to the lacquered facade.

  

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:58 am 
Offline
Rang: Storbruker

Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 2:49 pm
Posts: 865
The leader of the Commision has an interesting statement:


"It is reasonable to question if his expert opionions has been affected by his private situation. For example if he to a great extent has partied with parents in cases of abuse, says Koch".
("– Det er et rimelig spørsmål å stille om hans generelle faglige vurderingsevne har vært påvirket av hans private situasjon. For eksempel om han i stor grad har tatt foreldrenes parti i overgrepssaker, sier Koch. ")


Koch in this way tries to lead our thoughts towards the conclusion that the bias has been in favor of parents, and not against them.

This is a way of reasoning that is completely taken out of the blue. We have in fact no knowledge of how his secret and ongoing crime has affected his work through all these years. We only know that this great lack of judgement must have influenced his work in one way or another, and maybe in different ways in different cases.

In some cases he seems to have had a bias against parents.

In life in general, my experience is that people who have their own struggles can sometimes be surprisingly harsh on other people that have had much of the same challenges in their lives. And sometimes it is opposite.

Never the less there is - as far as I know - no evidence that the convicted psychiatrist has been soft on any parents, or that he has had a bias in favor of parents, in cases in which he has been involved.

Koch`s statement can be interpreted as an attempt to calm and tone down the importance of the rotten egg that she has had in her basket.

And by the way, how biased is Koch herself?

Very biased of course. As a leader of a commision that has been scandalized and ridiculed, she has herself looked through some documents and concluded that there has been no misjudgements. Everything is in order!

And thereby made it clear that her own judgment of bias and how she herself might be affected is completely absent.

This is not convincing.

The psychiatrist`s work in the commision should obviously be investigated by independant individuals.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:03 pm 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
  

Some comments to the documentary and especially to the Norwegian reactions. (Some of it repeats "Three interesting articles" above.)

Marianne Haslev Skånland:
A new BBC documentary on Norwegian child protection
MHS's home page, 15 August 2018

  

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:11 am 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
  

Good article analysing particularly what Reidar Hjermann and Thore Langfeldt say in the documentary:

Margaret Hennum:
Noreg sin dehumaniserande strategi, del 9
(Norway's dehumanising strategy, part 9)
Margaret Hennum, on facebook, 9 August 2018


Google Translate barely works for this piece; much of the sense disappears. It may have something to do with Margaret's writing in her west coast dialect, but one would have thought that the people working on translation to and from Norwegian for Google would have done slightly better.

  

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:32 pm 
Offline
Superposter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:48 am
Posts: 6585
Location: Oslo
  

Hege Dahl:
Clammy double standards and a strong tendency to psychological denial
MHS's home page, 17 August 2018

The article is a comment on an article in Dagbladet on 16 August, which concerns the BBC documentary.

  

_________________
Hjemmeside http://www.mhskanland.net


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Theme designed by stylerbb.net © 2008
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
All times are UTC [ DST ]