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FORUMET REDD VÅRE BARN • View topic - The Minister's deceptive seminar about the CPS Barnevernet
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 Post subject: The Minister's deceptive seminar about the CPS Barnevernet
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:55 pm 
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The Minister of Children and Equality's deceptive seminar about the CPS Barnevernet


Jan-Aage Torp:

Christian Coalition World, 17 October 2018

"- Norway is attempting to deceive the world about «Barnevernet», states Einar C. Salvesen, psychology specialist and initiator of KIB, the nation´s only professional network of psychologists, lawyers and other specialists within the field of CPS, that is actually presenting a concerted and longterm criticism of the scandalous «Child Protection Services»."

"The outrage of Salvesen and numerous other professionals that have contacted KKN this week is directed at the seminar that Ms. Linda Hofstad Helleland, the Minister of Children & Equality in Norway´s government, is having in Oslo on Monday. October 22nd about «Barnevernet viewed with International Eyes»."

"A SETUP!
    - All the speakers are pro-Barnevernet. This is a setup to mislead and decieve the international opinion. and KIB wants the world to know that this is the case! maintains the reknown psychology specialist Einar C. Salvesen in a conversation with KKN."



The seminar admits only invited guests. Some CPS critics have rung the Ministry asking whether they can attend, but either been , or, in the case of KIB, been told that just 3 of their representatives are allowed to attend.

Perhaps we could say that everything about this seminar shows Minister Helleland, the CPS, and our government up as nervous, and completely helpless to do anything effective to get the CPS Barnevernet into a better shape.
    My best guess is that she has invited the press – to refer to a "very successful seminar from which a lot was learned which will be of great value in the further development of Barnevernet"?

  

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 Post subject: Re: The Minister's deceptive seminar about the CPS Barnevern
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:12 am 
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Olav Bergo:
The child- and equality-ministry's obfuscating seminar on Monday

(Translation: Marianne Haslev Skånland)


Government minister Linda Hofstad Helleland (Conservative) has invited people to a seminar this coming Monday, about the criticism abroad of Norwegian Barnevern.

The minister for children has not invited Barnevernet's sharpest international critics to speak. Nor has she invited the sharpest national critics, people like Einar Salvesen, Gro Hillestad Thune, Ragnhild Elisabeth Pettersen, Sverre Kvilhaug, Rune Fardal or Marianne Skånland. Or Trudy Lobben, with her recent experience of meeting the government's eight lawyers in the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. Maybe Trudy wins after all, despite the state's superior power.

Merethe Løland, the leader of Organisasjonen av barnevernsforeldre ('the Organisation of Barnevern parents'), is going to talk about the perspective of parents in child protection cases. Good. But the organisation is practically invisible in the public debate about Barnevernet.

The organisation Kvalitet i barnevernet (KIB – 'Quality in Barnevernet'), which in 2015 sent a thorough, factually based 'message of concern' about Norwegian child protection to the Ministry, one which has 260 professionals behind it, has not been invited to speak at the seminar. They are allowed to listen; that is, altogether three participants from KIB are. Many families, who have a lot to relate about why there is a storm of criticism against Norwegian Barnevern, have been met with refusal.

The Ministry allows a couple of critical voices to participate: BBC journalist Tim Whewell, the author Maciej Czarnecki and lawyer Thea Totland. They are sort of wrapped in by speakers like Bufdir leader Mari Trommald and youngsters from Forandringsfabrikken ("The Change Factory"). Thea Totland is the only critical voice among the five participants in the final panel debate.

Minister Helleland's seminar disregards and makes invisible the most incisive critics in Norway and abroad, it goes in for an incorrect picture of the critics and of the content of their criticism. Those who apply such methods, normally leave political life in dishonour. Brave politicians meet with their most serious critics, listen with interest and attention to what they say, and become wiser.

Politicians who isolate themselves from their critics and resist changing whatever does not function, can survive for a time. But sooner or later people's patience with a CPS which obviously does not work, reaches an end.

We need a children’s minister who focuses her attention on the grim realities, who listens to the critical voices of children and their parents, and puts things in order in Barnevernet. We do not need a minister who complains about the fury of children and their parents, but disregards and does nothing about the reasons for their fury.


*

The Norwegian version of the article was originally , and is also found in .


  

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 Post subject: Re: The Minister's deceptive seminar about the CPS Barnevern
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Click on "nett-tv" here to see the whole seminar.

The Ministry of Children and Equality:

(Seminar about Norwegian child protection seen with international eyes)
The Government, 17 – 23 October 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re: The Minister's deceptive seminar about the CPS Barnevern
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:00 am 
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Merethe Løland, Organisasjonen for barnevernsforeldre (OBF):

OBF's website, 26 October 2018

"Bare se på Trude Lobben, hun og hennes advokat mot STATEN NORGE med sine 9 advokater og rådgivere, i tillegg en hel delegasjon på «studietur». Så har dere Merethe Løland, her i dag på vegne av alle barnevernkritiske foreldre, mot alle dere som skryter hemningsløst av det flotte barnevernet vi har som redder så mange barn.
    Vi finner igjen ubalansen gjennom hele behandlingen i fylkesnemnda, mor og far med sin altfor under betalte advokat mot hele barnevernet, en mye bedre betalt kommune advokat, en konkluderende og skråsikker sakkyndig, en talsperson, alle de innhentede opplysningene dere verken kan tyde eller har bruk for men som dere samler inn bare fordi det kan hende dere finner noe grums, svært godt betalte og selvsagt helt uavhengige fosterforeldre og selvsagt nemndleder. Alle skjønt enige om at barnet bør tas fra sine foreldre og vokse opp blant fremmede i et fosterhjem, totalt avskåret fra familie og nettverk."

(Just look at at Trude Lobben, she and her lawyer against the state of Norway, with their 9 lawyers and advisors, in addition to a whole delegation on a "study tour". And then you have Merethe Løland, leader for OfB here today, on behalf of all Barnevern-critical parents, who is supposed to meet, then, all of you who boast without restraint of the fantastic Barnevernet we have, which rescues so many children.
    We find this imbalance again in Fylkesnemnda (the county board). Mother and father, with their all too poorly paid lawyer against the whole of Barnevernet, a much better paid municipal lawyer, a concluding and cocksure expert, a spokesperson, all the elicited information nobody can either interpret or put to any use but which has been collected just to be on the safe side. Very well paid and of course completely independent foster parents, and of course the leader of the county board. They agree completely that the best for this child is to be deprived of its parents and grow up in a foster home with strangers, totally cut off from family and network.)


"Når barnevernet stadig driver og tolker loven og betydningen av barnets beste slik det passer dem, er det da så rart at foreldre landet over raser, hyler ut i media eller rømmer til utlandet? Når rettssikkerheten til barn og foreldre er så dårlig som den er, kan dere ikke forsøke å forstå hvorfor utenlandske medier blir kontaktet som et siste rop om hjelp. Det er ikke uten grunn at 9 saker har havnet i EMD.
(When Barnevernet all the time keeps interpreting the law and the meaning of "the child's best interest" as they see fit, is it any wonder that parents all around the country are furious, scream to the media or flee abroad with their children? When security under the rule of law for children and parents is as bad as it is, can you not try to understand why foreign media are contacted as a last cry for help? It is not completely without reason that 9 cases have got as far as to the ECtHR.)

Barnets beste ja, sett med hvem sine øyne og fra hvem sitt ståsted? Når mor og far går fra hverandre, er det viktig at barnet får god kontakt med begge foreldrene, til og med kanskje delt bosted. Men når det er snakk om omsorgsovertakelse, da må barnet skjermes til de grader, fordi barnet ikke evner å ha flere omsorgsbaser. Hvis barnet/ungdommen vil se sine foreldre mer er de enten blitt manipulert eller ikke i stand til å se konsekvensen av det. Dersom barnet ikke ønsker kontakt, da er det viktig å lytte til barnet. Er det rart vi reagerer?"
(Oh yes, the best interest of the child, seen through whose eyes, from whose point of view? If mother and father split up, it is important that the child should have good contact with both parents, maybe even two places to live. But when the question is taking into care, the child must be so extremely protected because the child is suddenly not able to have several care bases. If the child/youth wants to see its parents more, they have either been manipulated or do not see the consequences of their wishes. If they do not want contact, then it is important to listen to the child. Is it any wonder we react?)

  

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 Post subject: Re: The Minister's deceptive seminar about the CPS Barnevern
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Utfordret statsråden om barnevern
Se video av Marit Skivenes presentere forskning på seminar med barneminister Linda Helleland.
https://www.uib.no/admorg/121485/utfordret-statsråden-om-barnevern
(Challenged the minister about Barnevern
Watch the video of Marit Skivenes in her presentation of research at seminar with children's minister Linda Helleland.)

University of Bergen, 29 October 2018

"Norsk barnevern fungerer godt om man sammenligner med andre land, og Norge er høyt rangert på internasjonale indekser over barnevelferd. Likevel er det klart forbedringspotensial når det kommer til utdanning, involvering av barn og regulering av skjønnsutøvelsen.
    Dette var hovedbudskapet til professor Marit Skivenes under et seminar arrangert av Barne- og likestillingsdepartementet i lys av kritikken mot norsk barnevern i norske og internasjonale medier (se video lenger ned i saken).
    Barneminister Linda Helleland deltok sammen med en rekke andre viktige beslutningstakere og interesseorganisasjoner fra barnevernsfeltet, i tillegg til et stort pressekorps."

(Norwegian CPS functions well if compared to other countries, and Norway is highly ranked on international indexes concerning child welfare. Still there is a clear potential for improvement as regards education, involvement of children and regulating the exercise of assessment.
    This was the main message of professor Marit Skivenes during a seminar arranged by the Ministry of Children and Equality in the light of the criticism against Norwegian CPS in Norwegian and internationa media (cf the video further down).
    Children's minister Linda Helleland took part together with a number of other important decision makers and interest organisations from the CPS field, in addition to a large press corps.)


"Hun påpekte at det norske barnevernet fungerer godt om man sammenligner med andre land, og at Norge ligger godt an når det gjelder rettssikkerhet."
(She pointed out that Norwegian CPS functions well if compared to other countries, and that Norway is well placed as regards security under the rule of law.)

Marit Skivenes' speech was hardly a challenge to the minister. As expected from her, she found that Norwegian Barnevern is very fine, and her recommendations for more education etc are just what the Ministry wants. It all goes to cementing the practice that is already well established.
    Press people may have been present in large numbers; there has, however, been little to hear/see from them in the press, e.g of the few hard and clear objections there really were at the seminar, such as Merethe Løland's speech.
    There are likely several thousand families which would challenge Skivenes' view of what their security under the rule of law is and has been. Løland was right in saying that this seminar hardly reflected the amount of very serious criticism there actually is.
  
  

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 Post subject: Re: The Minister's deceptive seminar about the CPS Barnevern
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:05 am 
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From the speech of Norway's former ambassador to the Czech Republic Siri Sletner

Ambassador Sletner's speech of course expressed completely the position of the Norwegian government, down to detail. Anybody who believes that official Norway has any understanding at all for families broken up and destroyed by Barnevernet, should listen carefully to what former ambassador Sletner says here, and realise that this is the government speaking.
    (I have included another couple of comments, on the seminar in general, which is the basis for ambassador Sletner's views.)

The Minister of Children and Equality, Linda Hofstad Helleland, was present at the seminar, joining in the applause after each speech, including that of Siri Sletner.

Sletner's speech took place at 28:25 – 41:11 in the government's video of the seminar:


(Seminar about Norwegian child protection seen with international eyes)

(The translations are mine, not official from the government. MHS)


29:30
"At the outstart in 2011 and forwards, the mother rejected any contact with Barnevernet. But after a while a contact between Barnevernet and the mother developed, but parallel [with this] she obtained contact with some what I will call ardent souls in Czechia, who grabbed the case for varying reasons, and these also had varying backgrounds. And they established a support group for the mother."

33:26
"The majority in Czech society were either indifferent or surprised at what was heard from Norway. But those who protested, the support group for the mother, were, however, very loud and were given much space in the media. This has indeed been both a media campaign and also a civic action. They collected money in order to assist the mother with help of a lawyer from Czechia.
    Many members of the support group for the mother were the mothers and fathers of small children, who reacted emotionally to propaganda against Barnevernet, and conscious – what I call misinformation about the case from people who had different aims. The populists in the first phase got a lot of latitude, .. "


Right from the beginning of her speech, then, Sletner seems to put blame on the mother in the case, Eva Michaláková, and people supporting her – as indeed the Norwegian authorities have done all along. They have blamed her for trying to get her sons back, have blamed her for trying to get supporting publicity in Czechia, have heaped contempt on Czechs supporting her and showing her sympathy and have called them 'populists' for trying to collect money to help her get legal assistance from Czechia.


30:01
"Quite factually, what happened? Naturally enough, when this reached the media, the first target became the embassy and myself. I was then, at regular intervals, three months after I had taken up my position in 2014, called twice to the foreign minister, once to the prime minister, once to the president, and once to the country's number 2, the president of the Senate. The major purpose was to tell us that the bilateral relationship was very bad."

Sletner seems most of all concerned about herself as a kind of martyr, and about the Norwegian government being 'misunderstood'.


32:05
"Of course there was a correspondence between Czechia's prime minister and our prime minister, and between the president and the king. And there was also a meeting between our two countries' prime ministers, it lasted twelve minutes and was only about child protection. As was natural, I had several meetings with the support group to explain how we looked at it from the Norwegian side.
    All of this had my message in common, it was that I presented Norwegian Barnevern in a general, superordinate way. We are of course not going to go into individual cases."


The usual way Norway's authorities present themselves as 'superordinately' logical and in the right. They simply demand to be believed without ever giving chapter and verse, without having to account for what they do in practice.


35:07
"The tabloids quickly pounced on the case, of course, and in – I have to say – post-communist Czechia, the respect for press ethics is still being developed. For several leading media businesses/publications, many of them I'd say under severe economic pressure – they saw a possibility of increased circulation as a first priority, and then objectivity was usually sacrificed."
Perhaps 'incredible impertinence' is the best description of the Norwegian attitude to the Czech press? We remember that our Norwegian press is, with very few exceptions, heavily subsidised by the state. Every newspaper editor around our country is nevertheless quite concerned about their circulation.
    But it goes deeper than impertinence. The extent to which Norway's official representative in Czechia tries to have everybody look down on the host country's 'developing press ethics' and take for granted that Norwegian newspapers are without question objective and of course have top class ethics, is stunning!

35:45
"The main problem is of course a heavyweight such as president Zeman, but also less prominent but equally unscrupulous politicians, who used the case cynically as an issue with the voters. We got the last example now in the election to the senate: She who is the leader of the support group she just managed to get in with a majority of five votes."
Surely a rather supercilious 'analysis' of Czech politics and the motives and reasoning of Czech politicians?


36:18
"- - eh - who don't understand the issue, or that they have a Christian-traditional outlook on life.
    The president, the first in Czechia's history who was voted in directly, from the first – of course fought to be re-elected, and he used this as part of his election campaign. He talked of "the fight for our boys in Norway", said that Barnevernet is a modern edition of the German Lebensborn and, of course, Norway's ambassador was not welcome at the national day celebration, was de-invited, together with a press release. And in that way this worked very efficiently in the media."

  

37:04
"After a while it has gained more nuance. It was of considerable help that one of Czechia's foremost child psychologists in a newspaper interview emphasised that Barnevernet in Norway probably had good reasons for their reaction. It is also typical: the mother, her support group, just gave an account of the one side of the case. Positive reactions also came when a group of Czech women living in Norway wrote an article together in which they defended Barnevernet. Since the case has a strong, nationalistic undertone, it was important that just these persons were of Czech origin.
Other nations who object to Norwegian CPS's treatment of their people in Norway, are regularly accused of being nationalistic, most of all if they claim that their own country really has some arrangements or legislation which is better than that of Norway.
    We should perhaps, however, contemplate what kind of nationalism Norway has furnished itself with. It is found in all kinds of areas, but not least regarding Barnevernet, as indeed demonstrated by Sletner's own speech here! (A distraction: I am reminded of a humorous ditty, composed some 30-40 years ago, when our oil wealth was new: (Norway is what is good). Unfortunately, it hits the nail on the head.)

37:45
"After the last judgment in the district court, when Czech media had finally taken the trouble of being present, the Norwegian judge communicated easily and in an organised way with the media, and the indirect message was that we stand fully and wholely behind the Norwegian justice system."
'Taken the trouble' – – Norway's representative praising the 'easy and organised' communication of a Norwegian judge, contemptuous of Czech media.


38:01
"So after four years with tabloid headlines and articles and populistic moves, general broadcasters like Czech tv and radio, with more press-ethical ambitions, reacted and have made corrections when the embassy has pointed out mistakes which have been broadcast. So we also sense more of a focus on Czech child cases, in that violence against children has become a more general theme in social debate. So it is of use to oppose what is said. Czechs generally have faith in the Norwegian justice system, and they have previously during this case asked for clear reactions from the Norwegian government. It has not helped that I, as a representative of the Norwegian government, have come out with statements.
    So there is of course greater understanding that these are complex, and not black-and-white questions. But it slightly depends on generational differences. Younger Czechs look westward and follow up better."

The 'objective' Norwegians 'pointing out mistakes' – the Czechs being 'populistic' but some of them having 'more press-ethical ambitions' ...
  

38:50
"Last of all: What should we learn from this? We must not - - when such cases turn up, we must not wait too long. Norwegian authorities must then get active quickly. We must have a more offensive dialogue. We must be - - when I say "we" I mean everything from Barnevernet's local office and upwards, be willing to meet the opponent, let us say Czech press, and talk with them. Refusing meetings leads nowhere, it just makes the case worse. One must be available. And I should like to give one small flower to Bufdir. Because they have in fact been active early towards the embassy and helped us in a very good way.
    And now that the Hague Convention has fallen into place – and you are responsible for that, of course – in fact a lot can be done very early. We must remember that any such debate, it is not about facts, it is not about explaining clearly how Norwegian Barnevern functions, it is only about emotions."


Only about emotions? And emotions making the factual content irrelevant? Emotions supposedly hinder people from understanding how Norwegian Barnevern works?

Her mention of the Hague Convention is indeed ominous, and signals the way Norway intends to use it: as an extra tool to reach out into other countries and dictate to families there, too, either how children should live there (not with their families, but in orphanages or foster families supervised from Norway by our Barnevern still, or that the children should be forcibly 'repatriated' to Norway, to similar living conditions here). Cf


*

So the opinion of official Norway is that when Barnevernet destroys families, to have and to show emotions is to be irresponsible, to childishly fail to understand facts. At the same time, the authorities claim the privilege of not going into any concrete facts.

We should perhaps rather think that not to have any emotions about such ill-treatment of a mother and her two boys shows a dangerous misunderstanding of what life is about.

And this is in fact the road that Norway follows in these cases. For parents, or anybody else, to show desperate unhappiness, fear, longing, upset at the tragedy of children being taken away from their parents without any necessary reason, is interpreted by Norwegian authorities to be illogical, unbalanced, despicable, immature – so that official Norway must "correct" them by "explain[ing] how we looked at it from the Norwegian side", "present[ing] Norwegian Barnevern in a general, superordinate way", and of course "not going to go into individual cases", but telling them that "Barnevernet in Norway probably had good reasons for their reaction". Probably? Trusting in Barnevernet's authority without going into the individual case concretely?

A mechanised hell is what Sletner portrays, a kind of slave existence where the slaves are to be despised and punished for showing despair at the way they and their companions are being treated.

Honour to the Czech support group and the Czech politicians who show natural, positive feelings of alarm at the abuse vented on one of their compatriots!
  
  

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 Post subject: Re: The Minister's deceptive seminar about the CPS Barnevern
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:03 am 
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of the political party Svobodní has written a comment on Sletner's speech and has also provided a translation into English:

Petr Mach:
"Bývalá norská velvyslankyně v ČR Siri Sletnerová, která je už zpět v Norsku, se na semináři norského Ministerstva pro děti a rovnost nevybíravě opřela do paní senátorky Jitka Chalánková a dalších politiků, kteří se zastávali paní Michalákové proti Barnevertu, který jí děti nespravedlivě odebral a přerozdělil do náhradních rodin. Podle Sletnerové všichni, kdo se zastávali Evy Michalákové a jejího práva starat se o své děti, byli bezohlední cyničtí nacionalističtí politici, kterým šlo jen o zviditelnění. Chalánkové se posmívá, že „byla nyní zvolena o pět hlasů“. Naši zemi popisuje jako zpátečnickou a naše média, která jí nešla na ruku, jako neetická a postkomunistická. Paní bývalá velvyslankyně je zřejmě frustrovaná z toho, že česká veřejnost stála na straně Evy Michalákové a volá do budoucna po „lepším PR“ ze strany Norska v ČR. Neuznává ani náznakem, že jejich organizace Barnevernet může dělat zásadní chyby. Z jejího projevu čiší taková arogance a nenávist k české společnosti, že kdyby byla i dnes velvyslankyní, museli bychom žádat její odvolání. Projev bývalé norské velvyslankyně je děsivý – není v něm ani náznak jejího zájmu o pocity matky a osud jejích dětí, je tam jen úřednická umanutá obhajoba norské státní moci a opovrhování českým prostředím. Je dobře, že tato paní, která pro nás nemohla být partnerem, je z naší země pryč."
Petr Mach, on facebook, 8 November 2018
to the original


English translation, by the author:
The former Norwegian ambassador to the Czech Republic, Siri Sletner, who is back in Norway now, attacked Mrs. Senator Jitka Chalánková and other Czech politicians who supported Mrs. Michalakova against Barnevernet, which unjustly took children from her and put them to foster families. According to Sletner, all those who advocated Eva Michalakova and her right to care for her children, were ruthless cynical nationalist politicians, who were just trying to gain voters on the case. She mocks Chalánkova for being now elected with just a "majority of five votes". Mrs. Sletner describes our country as backward, and our media as unethical. The former ambassador is apparently frustrated that the Czech public was on the side of Eva Michalakova and calls for a "better PR" in the future from Norway in the Czech Republic. She has not recognized any problem with Barnevernet. Her speech shows only arrogance and hatred against Czech society, so that if she were still today the ambassador, we would have to expel her as persona non grata. The speech of the former Norwegian Ambassador is terrifying - there is no sign of her interest in the mother's feelings and in the fate of her children, there is only a formal devoted defense of Norwegian state power and a contempt for the Czech people. We can be happy that this lady, who could not be a partner for us, does not serve in the Czech republic any more.


Petr Mach's previous very positive efforts in the Michaláková case are referred to
, and .

  

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