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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:17 am 
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Good article analysing particularly what Reidar Hjermann and Thore Langfeldt say in the documentary:

Margaret Hennum:
Noreg sin dehumaniserande strategi, del 9
(Norway's dehumanising strategy, part 9)
Margaret Hennum, on facebook, 9 August 2018


Google Translate barely works for this piece; much of the sense disappears. It may have something to do with Margaret's writing in her west coast dialect, but one would have thought that the people working on translation to and from Norwegian for Google would have done slightly better.

  

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:12 am 
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Hege Dahl:
Clammy double standards and a strong tendency to psychological denial
MHS's home page, 17 August 2018

The article is a comment on an article in Dagbladet on 16 August, which concerns the BBC documentary.

  

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:32 am 
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Three workers for the system defending it

Three central people in the cps system essentially attempt to explain away and trivialise the relevance of the case against **** (Name censored due to Norwegian authorities. -admin) for Norwegian child protection generally, and thereby defend Barnevernet, in the usual way. They also try to claim that the international attention Barnevernet has drawn has other reasons – as if that would excuse Barnevernet even if it were so.

Vigdis Bunkholdt, psychologist,
Jona Hafdis Einarsson, leader, Norsk barnevernsamband (Norwegian cps association),
Jan Storø, associated professor, OsloMet University:
Hvorfor svarer ikke norske politikere på BBCs spørsmål om barnevernet?
(Why do Norwegian politicians not answer BBC's question(s) about Barnevernet?)
Aftenposten, 16 August 2018


"Nylig sendte BBC sin andre dokumentar om norsk barnevern. Både dette og det forrige programmet tok utgangspunkt i den internasjonale oppmerksomheten barnevernet her til lands har fått de siste årene.
    Denne oppmerksomheten har i stor grad vært negativ, drevet frem av grupper som ikke ønsker offentlig innblanding i familielivet. De har sett nettopp norsk barnevern som et passende sted å markere dette."

(Recently, the BBC had on its program a second documentary about Norwegian child protection. This as well as the previous programme selected as its starting point the international interest which the cps in this country has received in recent years.
    This interest has to a large degree been negative, propelled by groups who do not want public interference in family life. They have seen Norwegian child protection as exactly the kind of suitable place to emphasise this.)


No, it is not the case that groups with authoritarian attitudes to family and the power of parents have by intensive search found Norwegian Barnevernet "suitable" for making their views known. Christian groupings, especially in Romania and among Romanian-related people in other countries, have discovered information, to start with from relatives in several countries of the Bodnarius in Norway, that a child protection service they had never heard of or indeed "searched for", had treated the Bodnariu family in Naustdal horribly and destructively. They then apparently realised that they must try to stop it through as wide publicity as possible (cf Demonstrations abroad against Norwegian child protection (CPS) – Barnevernet). Because the Bodnarius were deeply engaged in leading a Christian life, the mobilisation came first and foremost from Christian groups. But the publicity also resounded among people of all sorts of opinions in many countries, people with no particular "family view" as a motive, but just awake to abuse to fellow human beings and families going on.
    Furthermore, all sorts of issues draw interest from people who relate them to their own special "agendas". It normally does not matter if the subject matter is a question which can stand on its own feet.
    As regards the Michaláková case in the Czech Republic, there was from the start no such Christian element at all. One of the most deeply engaged Czech politicians to make a huge contribution, Tomáš Zdechovský, is an active Catholic, and Christian groups have also taken part, but the case, and the conditions in Norwegian child protection generally, received great support from politicians and alert people of nearly every persuation (cf Czech family seriously damaged by Norwegian child protection service (CPS)).

*

"Dette er et rimelig spørsmål å stille, men vi finner det bemerkelsesverdig at det gjøres en kobling mellom psykiaterens svært uheldige holdninger til barn og kvaliteten ved norsk barnevern generelt. Vi stiller spørsmål ved BBCs agenda."
(This is a reasonable question, but we find it remarkable that a connection is made between the psychiatrist's very unfortunate attitude to children and the quality of Norwegian child protection generally. We question the BBC's agenda.)

No, the BBC's "agenda" is for that matter unimportant, especially when the case has from the BBC's side been presented quite realistically as a question not about what one man has done, but about what the subsequent actions of the Norwegian establishment may show about the system of child protection. Cf the TV-dokumentary at times:

05:20:
Whewell (BBC): "It was the trial of one expert. But it raises much wider questions about the whole Norwegian child protection system."

20:50:
Whewell: "But this is about the credibility of the system, isn't it? It's not really about one man, it's about the issue of the system that employed him."
Langfeldt: "Yeah but you could ... I mean, what do you mean by 'the system that employed him'? They shouldn't have employed him, but they didn't know. I mean ..."
   Langfeldt's reasoning here seems to twist the question away from one of a possible, deep-rooted falutiness in the whole system, and he, first and foremost, takes the focus away from the fact that our authorities have not done anything efficient now, after the court case, to investigate this right through to the bottom.

So no, it is not remarkable that Whewell from the BBC sees just what the case and our authorities' trivialising of it says about the whole child protection system. The way Norwegian authorities, in the child protection sector AND generally, have tackled (or let us say: have not tackled) the **** (Name censored due to Norwegian authorities. -admin) case, is a symptom of the kind of thinking which permeates the system. The BBC's motives are not remarkable; the motives of Norwegian child protection and Norwegian authorities are, and the way they have been allowed by the population to keep on in this way for years is (cf Udgaard: Norway and 'civil society').

*

The three authors of the article think the minister for children should have commented, not refused to speak with the BBC. It's not surprising that they do, since their recommendation of what to say is the same as that of Hjermann! (cf A new BBC documentary on Norwegian child protection ) :

"Statsråden kan lese innlegget til tidligere barneombud Reidar Hjermann i Dagbladet 7. august, så vet hun hva hun skal gjøre når neste anledning byr seg. For slik Hjermann skriver – så enkelt kan det gjøres."
(The Minister can read the article by former children's ombudsman Reidar Hjermann in Dagbladet 7 August, then she will know what to do when the next opportunity presents itself. Because the way Hjerman writes – that is how simply it can be done.)

Can it? Is everybody abroad so gullible that they swallow such hot-air?


On the other hand, I agree with them on this:

"Vi våger påstanden at nærmest ethvert annet saksområde som hadde blitt utsatt for en kritisk dokumentar i BBC i beste sendetid en lørdag kveld, ville utløst en rask reaksjon fra det offentlige Norge. Departementet kan ikke skjule seg bak «vi kommenterer ikke enkeltsaker»."
(We dare to assert that if a critical documentary had appeared on the BBC in prime time on a Saturday night in almost any other sphere, it would have elicited quick reaction from Official Norway. The Ministry cannot hide behind "We do not comment on individual cases.")

The question is, though, whether Norwegian authorities have anything relevant to say, so long as they will not admit that the total attitude and view of children and their protection reigning in political circles has for years been on a slippery slope down into a black hole: Barnevernet, with just such an ideology as displayed by these three writers.

*

If Barnevernet were not such a tragedy, these bouts of fencing would have been a very entertaining comedy. They contain such obvious nonsense.

  

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:17 am 
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A defender of the system:

Ben McPherson:
Open letter to Tim Whewell, BBC: Children in Norway are born with rights
Aftenposten 16 August 2018


"... and I’m married to someone who works at Bufdir, the directorate which provides guidance to the Child Protection Service (Barnevernet). ...
....
I wish you’d pointed out that children are almost only removed from their parents in cases of violence or sexual abuse, or due to psychiatric problems or substance abuse. This information is freely available."


His information is not so good. That these claims about causes are very freely available is due to their being dished out incessantly by our authorities and Barnevernet itself. Reality is that they are not even the most frequently alleged causes for taking a child from its parents. There is a difference between general principles and what takes place in the real world.

*

"You claim that Norwegian parents increasingly distrust the state. I couldn’t find a basis for this claim, beyond the words of Cecilia and Inez, both of whom lost their children to Barnevernet."

This formulation about the two interviewed mothers is very derogatory, as if the reason given to separate the children from them, was automatically right. McPherson also trivialises the question of whether the reason was correct:
"Whether or not the Child Protection Service acted with excessive zeal in these two cases, it’s hardly surprising that both are suspicious of the service."

*

You glossed over the fact that in most cases Barnevernet works with families to ensure that they don’t have to remove children, and that they invest huge resources in teaching parents the skills they lack.
    It’s hardly surprising that the system will work less well in cases where parents refuse that help.


There is a difference between what Barnevernet says and what they in fact do. We do know this "work". A lot of pressure which is unreasonable, monitoring, allegations of details made out by Barnevernet to be serious, force used e.g to let one's family be installed in "mothers' homes" / "family centres", to be "evaluated" by psychologists. All of it tends to lead to the children being taken after a while.

*

"It’s good that you have added to that debate. I only wish you weren’t — unintentionally — feeding a narrative that Norway is anti-family and anti-Christian."

Quite right, Norway is not anti-Christian. But leading Christian circles in Norway swear by Barnevernet, the state, and close to blind discipline under the state and an unquestioning belief in it. This is especially the case in groups which dominate in Kristelig Folkeparti (the Christian Democratic Party), which is represented in Parliament, and in the newspapers Vårt Land and Dagen. Opposition to this state admiration exists, but it is often branded by many who think on the lines of McPherson as having as their central tenet a right to hit children. The core of their belief is perhaps rather that children have a right not to be deprived of their parents unless this punishment – for it is indeed a very serious punishment against a child – is proportionate, has a sensible relation to the offense, and is beyond question based on truth about every aspect of the case.

*


McPherson's article has also been published in Norwegian: Kjære Tim Whewell, beskyttelse av barn er midt i hjertet av norsk kultur. Åpent brev til Tim Whewell, BBC.

  
  

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:21 am 
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The role of the Expert Commission on Children and the Ministry's plans


An article in Aftenposten does not seem to be on the internet:

Overgrepsdømt sakkyndig i barnevernssaker – nå kan sakene bli ettergått på nytt
(Expert in child protection cases found guilty of abuse – now the cases may be re-examined)
Departementet vurderer om det er grunnlag for ytterligere oppfølging av barnevernssakene der den dømte barne- og ungdomspsykiaterern har vært sakkyndig.
(The Ministry considers whether there is reason for further follow-up of the child protection cases in which the sentenced child and youth psychiatrist has functioned as an expert.)
Aftenposten, 18 August 2018


What the Ministry thinks and wants is unclear. On the one hand we are told:

" – Departementet vurderer nå hva som bør gjøres, og om det er grunnlag for ytterligere oppfølging. Det sier Kai Agnar Finsnes, konstituert ekspedisjonssjef i barnevernsavdelingen i Barne- og likestillingsdepartementet på spørsmål om departementet vil ta initiativ til å gjennomgå barnevernssakene der den dømte barne- og ungdomspsykiateren har vært sakkyndig."
(The Ministry is now considering what ought to be done, and whether there is a basis for further follow-up, says Kai Agnar Finsnes, temporarily appointed Director of the child protection section in the Ministry for children and equality, when asked whether the Ministry will take an initiative to go through the child protection cases for which the sentenced child and youth psychiatrist has functioned as an expert.)
  
But he continues:

"Vi er tilfreds med at Barnesakkyndig kommisjon (BSK) har gått gjennom et utvalg barnevernssaker som barnepsykiateren har hatt til vurdering. Vi registrerer at BSK har funnet at hans vurderinger ikke skiller seg vesentlig fra de andre medlemmenes vurderinger i de samme sakene, sier han."
(We are satisfied the Expert Commission on Children (ECC) has gone through a selection of child protection cases which have been evaluated by the child psychiatrist. We take note of the ECC's findings that his evaluations are not markedly different from those of other members' evaluations in the same cases, he says.)


It is quite a question whether the Ministry's satisfaction should not be turned around into a different observation:
    The evaluations of the members of the Expert Commission on Children are to a remarkable degree of the same type as the evaluations of a child psychiatrist who has had as his usual hobby the downloading and viewing of pictures and films in which sexual abuse of children takes place, and who in court was primarily concerned with his own position as having been found out and now being stigmatised (this is clear from the judgment).

*

The article finally turned up on the internet late Sunday night. It was dated the 18th in the paper version; on the web it is dated the 19th and has a slightly different title and some other changes, but is clearly the same article:
Sakkyndig psykiater dømt for nedlasting av overgrepsfilmer: Departementet vurderer om barnevernssaker skal tas opp igjen
(Expert psychiatrist sentenced for downloading of abuse films: The Ministry considers whether child protection cases are to be re-opened)
Aftenposten, 19 August 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:05 pm 
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When research scholars lack side view

Barns beste - Norge mot verden (The child's best interest - Norway against the world?)
https://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/barns-b ... n/70106663

This article is about a docent, a researcher, a psychologist and a paediatrician defending the Norwegian CPS after the BBC documentary. They write:


"The program is heavily criticizing the Norwegian CPS and the takeover of children after what can be regarded as less serious episodes of violence and care deficit."

(....)

"We think knowledge of what we understand as violence against children is important to understand the different perspectives in the partly heated debate about Norwegian CPS in foreign media and at home."


In other words: Here in Norway we know how harmful less serious violence against children really is, and that is the main reason why foreigners do not understand us!

No.

This is research with blinkers on. Research where they dig deep into how children are traumatized by any kind of violence from parents, and where they can keep on forever. The way the CPS itself is keeping on.

But at the same time they stick their heads in the sand, refusing to see the other side of this:

The measures that the CPS use.

The choices of life are always about alternatives. Compared to what? What options do we have? Could the measures be more damaging than the problem itself?

This is where CPS research goes blind.

Can these researchers claim that a care order, taking the children out of their environment and placing them with paid care-takers, is not to inflict serious psychological violence on them? Would they claim that the care order cannot traumatize the child and in fact ruin the child's life?

Or didn't they look in that direction?

Sometimes it is more convenient to keep the blinkers on.

And the sore truth is also that CPS research would lose it's funding if they took the blinkers off. CPS needs this kind of narrowtracked researchers to explain why children - who "in the heat of the battle" have had their fingers smacked - need to be removed from home. They also need this kind of research to justify why otherwise competent parents are arrested and thrown into a prison cell.

The CPS also needs judges and county board leaders and a whole system that is infused with and understands this.

Because the rest of us do not understand it.

Still it is painful and frustrating - and embarrassing - to observe how individuals with a scientific background can be so shallow. These researchers are simply unwilling to investigate the side effects of the CPS measures. They are unwilling to ask if the treatment can be more damaging than the sickness itself. Especially the doctor amongst them should be occupied with such considerations.

In my view the authors of this article are by no means as thorough and critical as science itself demands from them. They are diligent only in avoiding core issues.

It is the foreigners that have understood. And not Norway. But Norwegian arrogance and ignorance is everywhere. Also among researchers.


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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:53 pm 
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MH Skånland wrote:
  
Three workers for the system defending it

Three central people in the cps system essentially attempt to explain away and trivialise the relevance of the case against **** (Name censored due to Norwegian authorities. -admin) for Norwegian child protection generally, and thereby defend Barnevernet, in the usual way. They also try to claim that the international attention Barnevernet has drawn has other reasons – as if that would excuse Barnevernet even if it were so.

Vigdis Bunkholdt, psychologist,
Jona Hafdis Einarsson, leader, Norsk barnevernsamband (Norwegian cps association),
Jan Storø, associated professor, OsloMet University:
Hvorfor svarer ikke norske politikere på BBCs spørsmål om barnevernet?
(Why do Norwegian politicians not answer BBC's question(s) about Barnevernet?)
Aftenposten, 16 August 2018  


The problem with people like these is that they think they have done a great finding every time they have identified a problem in a family.

Well, guess what? Finding problems in a family is the easiest thing in the world!

Helping children though is the most difficult task one can imagine.

And the CPS indeed very often does not help children at all.

Is it not interesting how these lecturers and experts on child care never ever touch the subject of the effect of the CPS measures?

In fact, this subject terrifies them. They want to talk about everything else.

I have myself been lectured by one of these experts` offspring on how traumatic it can be for a child not to be seen! (I did not have eyes in my neck as my son entered the room.) They love focusing on all the problems they can identify in your home. Some ridiculous, some more relevant.

But if you ask them the outcome of their work, they will go silent or talk about something else.

Were the children in the BBC program spanked or punished physically in other ways? I have no idea. But if they were, would it really change much? These authors seem to believe that if the BBC journalist had been harder on these parents, their faults would have been exposed, and it would have changed the whole message in the program.

Really? I dont think so.

It can be trauamatic for a child to be spanked. Or to have it`s fingers smacked. Or to be held hard because it has done something wrong. Many of us adults know by own experience, because this was the way children were brought up some decades ago.

But any kind of violence against children is forbidden these days. And maybe parents should be prosecuted or fined in some cases.

But do not punish the children! And indeed do not ruin the childrens`entire lives!

But that is exactly what the CPS does, and that is what the fuss and the protests are all about. The CPS uses measures that are more traumatic than the problem they were meant to solve!

To think that one does the spanked child a favor by taking it by force to a foster home is such a great misunderstanding that one can wonder where to begin. It is shocking and indeed scary that professionals on child care can be of such an opinion.

The CPS people either do not believe, or they just do not want to acknowledge that some of their measures are more traumatic and psychologically more violent than most other things one can think of.

Jan Storø ,Vigdis Bunkholdt and Jona Hafdis Einarsson all seem to be in this kind of denial.

And then again, in most cases there is not even talk of the slightest violence, but rather the parents`"lack of skills".

And when people like us tell them that the CPS again and again bring children from ashes to fire, they do not understand it.

Isn`t it terrifying that our greatest experts on children do not understand the pain and lifelong sorrow they cause in people`s and children`s lives?

It is so embarrassing for them that the outcome of CPS is, has always been, and always will be devastating, that they choose not to relate to such facts at all.

But these facts are the very reason why children should never be taken out of families unless real serious reasons call for it.

The loud critics against the CPS are heard because more and more people understand that the CPS ruin families without very good reasons. And when they do not have good reasons, they need psychologists, psychiatrist and other expert witnesses paid by the CPS to drive the care orders through the decision making system. This is very close to corruption, though denied by those who are participants and benefiting from it.

And when the politicians this time are silent, it can be for different reasons.

One of these reasons can be a dawning understanding of just how lost and malfunctioning the Norwegian CPS system is.


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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:37 am 
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Kari Killén (84) har forsket på omsorgssvikt siden 1960-tallet
Mangel på faglig forståelse i barnevernet svekker rettssikkerheten

(Kari Killén (84) has done research on care failure since the 1960s
Lack of professional understanding in Barnevernet weakens security under the law)
Aftenposten, 19 August 2018

Incredible lack of insight. Killén charges on in the same direction that she has always done, plus eagerness for more competence, more psychiatry, more inter-professional cooperation, more education about all sorts of care failure.

Just like previously, an absence of understanding children's connectedness to their parents. She also lacks, still, any realisation of her self having been a leader in bringing Norwegian Barnevern into the quagmire it is in, that which is being inflicted on people in our society today. On the contrary, she now eagerly lectures to child protection employees and other establishments, and is very popular as a lecturer in such circles. Those who believe that Barnevernet will now take a new direction due to the large amount of criticism and protests and scandalous cases being exposed, should take note.

This propaganda from Killén is furthered solidly by Aftenposten, with no misgivings. They support the authorities' continuation of child protection in the same way as before, with new family destructions and tragedies especially for the children, actions brought on them by people who think like Killén.

*

27 August 2018:
Cf  Some professional child experts – (1) Kari Killén

    

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Dømt psykiater slaktet stjernepsykologer
Foreldre mistet omsorgen i fem år

(Convicted psychiatrist slaughtered star psychologists
Parents lost care for five years)
I 2014 underkjente psykiateren rapporten som kunne ha gitt foreldrene barna tilbake. I april i år ble han dømt for overgrepsbilder av barn.
(In 2014 the psychiatrist set aside the report which could have given the children back to the parents. In April of this year he was convicted for abuse pictures of children.)
Dagbladet, 19 August 2018

What we see here, is a performance by psychologists/psychiatrists at odds with each other. But their "scientific" basis for giving such "evaluations" of families is equally lacking in any case. So here we have Hjermann and Raundalen having been set aside by **** (Name censored due to Norwegian authorities. -admin) examining their report in the Expert Commission on Children (ECC).

*


Jan Simonsen:
Barnepsykiater dømt i alvorlig pedofilisak, men får beholde eneomsorg for barn
(Child psychiatrist convicted in serious paedophilia case, but gets to keep sole custody for children)
Resett.no, 20 August 2018

The CPS case about psychiatrist **** (Name censored due to Norwegian authorities. -admin) children was of course run separately from the criminal case against him for downloading child pornography, but relevant matter from the CPS case and psychological assessments of him in connection with his relationship to his children were brought up in the criminal case and are referred in the judgment.

*

Tomáš Zdechovský:
BBC: Takový normální úchyl z Barnevernetu
zdechovsky.blog.idnes.cz, 16 August 2018

Google Translate is a bit unclear about the title, but it probably means "What a normal deviation from Barnevernet".

The first paragraph of the article translates (automatically) this way:
"How would you feel if you found out that the children were forcibly taken away for the sake of a convicted long-time pedophile, who, after a brief stay in prison, will immediately return to his children? That's what the British BBC asks in a new document."

The article seems to contain a couple of mistakes of fact and interpretation, but it is quite strong.
  
  

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:54 am 
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 Excellent: BBC has put out the documentary on youtube themselves. So now there are, hopefully, several versions out, making it less probably that they all disappear from the web. 


Norway's Silent Scandal – BBC Newsnight
BBC Newsnight, 6 August 2018


"Norway's Silent Scandal
Subscribe to our channel here: https://goo.gl/31Q53F

In April this year, a highly respected Norwegian child psychiatrist was convicted of downloading thousands of images of child pornography. The psychiatrist had been used as an expert, until his arrest, by Norway's controversial child protection system and was involved in decisions about whether children should be removed from their parents. Campaigners in Norway have long accused the system of removing children from their parents without justification and now, despite the serious nature of this man's offence, the authorities are refusing to review the child protection cases he gave evidence in. For Our World, Tim Whewell has been to Norway to try to discover why child protection in one of the world's wealthiest countries appears to be in crisis. This programme video adult themes.

Newsnight is the BBC's flagship news and current affairs TV programme - with analysis, debate, exclusives, and robust interviews.

Website: https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsnight
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bbcnewsnight"


  

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:54 am 
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Advertisements for the documentary has spread on an enormous number of websites. There are also some independent articles, although not many.


Margaret Hennum:
Let the sleeping dog sleep? How Norway deals with the latest Paedophile scandal
Step up 4 Children's Rights, 17 August 2018

"In the documentary, Whewell asks the former Children’s Ombudsman (2004 – 2012) Reidar Hjermann if he thinks the delight in seeing children being abused may have had an impact on **** (Name censored due to Norwegian authorities. -admin) work. „It may and it may not,“ Hjermann answers, without knowing the identity of the convicted expert, but very well informed about his work relations with Barnevernet.
    Then he shows no more concern about the matter. Not until he is confronted with **** (Name censored due to Norwegian authorities. -admin) overruling one of Hjermann’s own reports, which makes him personally affected. He then starts to consider it, that it might be a good idea to look at the cases where **** (Name censored due to Norwegian authorities. -admin) has been involved after all?!"


"[Thore] Langfeldt turns rather jovial when asked to comment on Tim Whewell documentary trip: 'When you phoned me, I said: my god what is he doing? He is coming over here to talk about such a case which is a normal case in Norway; we have lots of them! I think that there are more cases of people being convicted that have been working with children. If you should take all those cases up…. It will be hundreds and hundreds of people, and I think the system would collapse. Let the sleeping dog sleep.' "

*


Norway Allows Convicted Child Pornography Addict to Keep Custody of Kids While Separating Loving Families
The Christian Post, 10 August 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Linda Hofstad Helleland:
Som statsråd vil jeg ikke kommentere enkeltsaker.
Jeg skal sørge for et barnevern som er der for barna, ikke kommentere enkeltsaker

(As a government minister I will not comment on individual cases.
I am here to see to it that there is a Barnevern which is there for the children, not to comment on individual cases.)
Jeg har ikke anledning til å gå inn i enkeltsaker. Det handler ikke om likegyldighet.
(I do not have the possibility of going into individual cases. It is not about indifference.)
Aftenposten, 21 / 22 August 2018


I see, no individual cases, no concrete facts from the real world. But when the Minister will not go into individual questions in idividual cases, then she takes no responsibility for what the system all the time leads to.

Free from responsibility. Repudiation of responsibility.

Helleland's article repeats again and again all the statements we are used to, about how everything is good, how much better everything shall nevertheless become, how much money is poured into it. It is like hearing a doll talk. It is in no way informative, just stubborn. We have heard all of it for years – for myself at least from 1994.

*

*

A video made by Rune Fardal; he discusses Linda Helleland's article. 

Rune Fardal:
Barnevernet kritiseres sønder og sammen, politikere er tause!
(Barnevernet is criticised like nobody's business, the politicians are silent.)
Focus on Family & Human Rights in Norway, Family Channel, 22 August 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:52 am 
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Linda Merete Skarnes, sosionom og barnevernsleder i Enebakk:
(LMS, qualified social worker and cps leader in Enebakk municipality)
Barnevernet trenger barneministeren
(The cps needs the Minister for children)
Østlandets Blad, 23 August 2018


"BBC lager en dokumentarrekke om det norske barnevernet. Vi må ikke tro det er god reklame. Til det virker kunnskapen om det norske vernet av barn altfor mangelfull ute i verden. Det lages historier som minner om de mest søkte konspirasjonsteorier."
(The BBC makes a documentary series about Norwegian Barnevernet. We should not think it is good advertisement. The insight into the Norwegian protection of children found out in the world seems far too insufficient for that. Stories are constructed which are reminiscent of the most far-fetched conspiration theories.)

From my point of view, hearing that the BBC is going to make a whole series of codumentaries about little Norway's Barnevernet sounds exceedingly encouraging! I didn't know! (Wonder where she takes her information from.) So far there have been two, over two years. But it is good to hear that it is enough to upset cps workers.

The problem for this cps leader is really not that the BBC's programs from 2016 and 2018 "construct stories". Quite the contrary: the stories exist and they are real. That is why the upset and protest over a cps which carries out forcible dissolution of families are not likely to cease.

Apart from the central questions, the ideas turn up again in Skarnes' article of cps protesters and people who themselves have been subjected to cps destruction as having some kind of 'conspiracy theories'. Quaint ideas, cf the curious fantasies displayed here, here and (in Norwegian) in this thread. Is cps leader Skarnes an adherent of this circle of people, perhaps?


"Etter det jeg kjenner til har ikke Helleland selv jobbet i barnevernet, og det er derfor ikke å forvente at hun har alle svarene, ..."
(As far as I know, Helleland has not worked in the cps herself, and can therefore not be expected to know all the answers, ...)

But Helleland has expressed opinions about Barnevernet even many years ago, and has continued along the same lines of thinking. She absolutely knows enough about the version of Barnevernet which Skarnes wants to be spread around abroad too.


".... men det som er forunderlig er at det virker ikke som hun har rådgivere som kan hjelpe henne med gode svar heller. Ett eksempel på et slikt godt svar presenterer Reidar Hjermann i Dagbladet den 7. august. Som han skriver; vanskeligere er det ikke."
(... but it is curious that she does not seem to have advisors who can help her with good answers either. One example of such a good answer is presented by Reidar Hjermann in Dagbladet on 7 August. As he says: It is not much more difficult than this.)

Well, will such a general program statement convince everybody abroad when concrete questions are brushed aside?


"En annen mulig årsak, som Bunkholdt, Einarsson og Storø er inne på i Aftenposten 16. august, er at regjeringen rett og slett mangler en politikk på dette området."
(Another possible reason, touched on by Bunkholdt, Einarsson and Storø in Aftenposten on 16 August, is that the government simply lacks policy in this area.)

No, the government is not without a child protection policy, it keeps pushing its policy in the wrong direction.

"Barnevernet i Norge er antagelig best i verden, og dette skulle jeg ønske vi kunne være kollektivt stolte av. Selvfølgelig har vi fortsatt en vei å gå her også, men det må være lov å feire underveis."
(Norwegian cps is probably the best in the world, and I wish we could be collectively proud of it. Of course, we still have some way to go here too, but we must be allowed to celebrate on the way.)

So we see where the citizens of Enebakk can find their municipality's child protection service. Do they celebrate each individual taking-into-care? Their leader, anyway, believes that parents are "frustrerte, irriterte og sinte foreldre ..." (frustrated, irritated and angry parents ...). These are strongly pejorative terms in the present context. She does not mention that many, both children and parents who are exposed to the 'measures' of the cps, are broken-hearted and desperately unhappy, and that the likelihood of death, for example through suicide, is many times as high for them.


Skarnes says that "Barn og ungdom forteller om omsorgssvikt, vold og overgrep – og de blir trodd! Heldigvis." (Children and young people tell (us) about care failure, violence and abuse – and they are believed! Fortunately.) She says nothing about any action on the part of the cps when children and young people tell them about care failure, violence and abuse in Barnevernet's care.

  

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:47 pm 
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MH Skånland wrote:
     

Linda Hofstad Helleland:
Som statsråd vil jeg ikke kommentere enkeltsaker.
Jeg skal sørge for et barnevern som er der for barna, ikke kommentere enkeltsaker

(As a government minister I will not comment on individual cases.
I am here to see to it that there is a Barnevern which is there for the children, not to comment on individual cases.)
Jeg har ikke anledning til å gå inn i enkeltsaker. Det handler ikke om likegyldighet.
(I do not have the possibility of going into individual cases. It is not about indifference.)
Aftenposten, 21 / 22 August 2018  


The Norwegian Minister of Family and Children also states the following:
"The CPS in Norway is good. During the years from 2013 to 2017 the number of positions in the municipalities connected to CPS had risen på more than 23 percent, meaning 1149 positions. CPS-workers make a considerable effort to give children and their families a better life. Eighty percent of the families who received help while the child lives at home are satisfied, and the public`s faith in the CPS is on the rise."


In other words, the Minister speaks like the central leaders of the CPS itself (Bufdir). The cat has been let out of the sack. The Minister exposes that she also has not understood much.

The funny part is that she seems to be referring to a survey published some years ago. A survey in which the the scientific quality was at least questionable.

Earlier on, we have shown on this forum how surveys ordered and paid by Bufdir usually are heavily biased and of seemingly low scientific quality.


New Bufdir Survey 2016 (Norwegian)

Bufdir-report: Eight out of ten satisfied?

There are leading questions. There is avoidance of important questions. Surveys performed by the CPS workers themselves. The interviewed hand-picked by the CPS workers themselves. Not to mention the fact that the people that are questioned might very well be downright terrrified, fearing that the CPS is going to take away their children.

It is really like holding a knife to someones throat asking if they are happy. Because the CPS is in the deepest sense always giving the same message to families: We are going to give you as much help as we possibly can! And if we do not succed we are going to destroy you!

And then in a mild and sympathetic voice: "How satisfied are you with the CPS measures?"

Most families understand the stakes.

I myself was horrified and traumatized those couple of years when the CPS were either sending petitions or offering measures. Measures that we accepted because we behind our brave faces were crushed, frightened and helplessly under the power of the CPS. Is it a mystery that some people will say that the CPS are fantastic under such circumstances?

These kind of surveys just show the typical lack of ethics that the CPS has. The CPS never minds putting ultimate pressure on families. They can do it while they do surveys, or while they monitor families who know very well that they are about to lose their children.

Isn`t it hilarious? The CPS simultaneously says that it would be unethical to do surveys where they try to find out if the measures work. At the same time they can push families to the extreme, really threatening to devastate their lives.

Anyway, surveys like these are like headings in Sunday newspapers. They become truths no matter how meaningless the content might be.

It is really quite typical, although regrettable, that a minister makes her statements
backed by surveys and information supplied by the system itself.

Her article is also mocking all the "surveys" she can read on the web, authored by the many who have been marked or destroyed by the CPS, and who try to be whistle-blowers on social media. They make brave and desperate attempts to alert people like Helleland about what is really happening.

Her message to them is clear:

She doesn`t care.

Thanks for your clarity, Helleland!


Last edited by familien-er-samlet on Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re:Child expert sentenced for sex abuse pictures of children
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:59 pm 
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The case in criminal court against the child psychiatrist will run in the appeal court


Dømt barnepsykiater får ny runde om mildere straff
(Convicted child psychiatrist gets a new round in court about a milder sentence)
Dagbladet, 23 August 2018


"The appeal board in Borgarting Appeal Court has accepted for new trial the appeal from the child psychiatrist who was in Oslo District Court in April of this year convicted of for over 20 years having downloaded large quantities of material depicting abuse of children.
    The child psychiatrist, who was for several years a member of the state's supervisory Expert Commission on Children, appeals the sentence – not the question of guilt."


It is a good thing that the appeal regarding the sentence is appealed. Whether the punishment will then be milder, stricter or the same, the new trial will raise new interest and concern over how the child professions relate to their own colleagues and how the justice system assess them. People will be able to draw comparisons with how our justice system considers families being demolished by force by Barnevernet and the courts.

*

Here as well:

The Criminal Child Psychiatrist Jo Erik **** (Name censored due to Norwegian authorities. -admin) attempts to reduce his Punishment
Christian Coalition World, 24 August 2018

  

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