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FORUMET REDD VÅRE BARN • View topic - Norwegian CPS refugees in Malaysian detention
It is currently Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:08 pm



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 Post subject: Norwegian CPS refugees in Malaysian detention
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:59 pm 
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A mother and her two children, now aged 8 and 10, fled Norway two years ago. A care order had been settled by the County Council after a longstanding conflict with her ex-husband, and she left Norway secretly as she could not accept that putting the kids in foster homes could be a solution to their problem.

It has been known for some time that she had settled in Malaysia. However, Norway does not have any agreement on exchange of criminals with the country, and so she has been out of reach by Norwegian law.

But not completely. Norwegian authorities have withdrawn their passports, and without the option to renew visas, she and her children have technically been illegal immigrants in Malaysia for a long time.

The childrens` grandmother who visited them last year, was searched for by Norwegian police and Interpol. She was arrested and spent some time in prison in a foreign country before being escorted back to Norway, where she was given a restraining order. She is not allowed to visit them again.

Bestemor pågripen i barnebortføringssak
(Granny arrested in child abduction case)

https://www.nrk.no/norge/bestemor-pagri ... 1.13633537

The childrens` father has been very active in trying to localize the children and bring them back to Norway. He wants them to be put in foster homes, so that they can be "repaired and normalized" from the mothers supposed indoctrination of a narrative that he is a bad person. After that he hopes to regain custody of the children.

This week, the mother was arrested by Malaysian police, working in cooperation with the father and a private detective. She was found toghether with her children in a neighbourhood in a holiday province of the country.

Mor pågrepet i Malaysia, siktet for omsorgsunndragelse
(Mother arrested in Malaysia, charged for care evasion)

https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/vg_-mor-pa ... 1.13884947
Her pågripes norsk kvinne i Malaysia etter to år på flukt med barna
(Here a Norwegian woman is being arrested in Malaysia after two years escape with children)

https://www.tv2.no/a/9636757/

She is now held in a detention camp in Langkawa, which also houses refugees and illegal immigrants from countries like Bangladesh and Myanmar. According to the private detective who was interviewed on Norwegian television TV2 (above), the environment in these camps is "ugly".

118 die in Malaysia refugee camps in 2 years
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2017/03/3 ... commission

The father is hoping that the Norwegian authorities will become more engaged and active so that the children can be brought back to Norway as soon as possible.

According to the fathers`lawyer, the mother will be prosecuted for overstaying visas and for not having a valid passport, and she will have to meet in court.

For now, it is unclear how and when the matter will be solved.


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 Post subject: Re: Norwegian CPS refugees in Malaysian detention
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Norsk kvinne og hennes to barn er på flukt fra barnevernet – søker politisk asyl i Malaysia
(Norwegian woman and her two children on the run from childrens protection services - seeks political asylum in Malaysia)

https://www.tv2.no/nyheter/9643262/

So this case took a turn that few may have foreseen. First the mother and her children are detained in a camp for refugees and illegal immigrants, then she seeks asylum on claims that she will get unfair treatment on an eventual arrival in Norway.

She has got a lawyer in Malaysia, and he will get documents from Norway. Her Norwegian lawyer is willing to go to Malaysia to assist, but stresses that he will not go there to help her flee or escape norwegian authorities. ("Men jeg reiser ikke ned dit for å hjelpe henne å flykte eller unndra seg norske myndigheter, presiserer Thrana.") (Adresseavisen)


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 Post subject: Re: Norwegian CPS refugees in Malaysian detention
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Posts: 6878
Location: Oslo
  

The Malaysian lawyer:


"Ganesan A/L Subramaniam is a lawyer since February 4,1994 currently practicing in Ganesan Hasnah & Rakan-Rakan, Sungai Petani branch, Kedah. You may reach Ganesan A/L Subramaniam at 04-4441501/2/3."

Here is the firm:
https://www.rcakl.org.my/ganesan-hasnah ... -2538.html
https://www.lookp.com/ganesan-hasnah-ra ... ontact-sec
https://www.lookp.com/lawyer-ganesan-a-l-subramaniam

The place is called Sungai Petani.


Unfortunately I cannot ser any mail address. Anybody?

Oh yes, here is one:
ghrrspk@gmail.com


It is a very good thing that she is applying for asylum. Let us hope that the Malaysian lawyer is highly energetic and does not let either the Norwegian authorities or other Norwegians charm him into believing in the "wonderful" state of Norwegian justice in CPS cases.
    I don't quite see why you say, familien-er-samlet, that few had foreseen that she would apply for asylum? She has seemed quite resourceful up to now, and applying for asylum seems equally logical? Of course it is absolutely true that she – and her children – will absolutely not be fairly treated in Norway. The lawyer should maybe ask Tomas Zdechovsky in the European parliament what he thinks of Norwegian justice? Or Czech president Zeman?

   
   

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 Post subject: Re: Norwegian CPS refugees in Malaysian detention
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Norwegian television TV 2 is following up on the case today:

UD om barnevernsflukten: Vi prioriterer saken høyt
(Foreign Ministry about the CPS escape: The case has high priority)

https://www.tv2.no/nyheter/9645607/

"Norwegian foreign authorities have until now been silent about the complicated situation that has occured in Malaysia. The case is demanding and sensitive because it involves two small children, and TV2 knows that an intense game is ongoing to find a solution to the situation".

Norwegian Foreign Ministry (UD) say this about the situation:
"Norwegian authorities have to respect regulations and laws in the country the child has been abducted to. Malaysia has not joined the Hague Convention of 1980 about child abduction. Our experience is that cases where Norway does not have a cooperation after the Hague Convention are especially challenging to solve."

The whole situation is not totally clear. The Norwegian Foreign Ministry is supposed to give the mother assistance in the case she has with the Malaysian criminal system enforcing the immigration laws. A case that has ironically come up due to Norwegian authorities`withdrawal of the family`s travel documents. At the same time, it wants to bring her back to Norway where she will be put in jail and the children placed in foster homes.

This might after all be a good position from the mothers point of view. And the longer it takes to "solve" the case, the more attention it will get, hopefully also in overseas and international media.

Whatever view one has on this mother and her actions, she has indeed put Norways CPS `back in the spotlight again.

Norway is about to be confirmed and widely acknowledged as "one of those countries" people have to flee from. That will, in the long run, contribute to the fall of the Norwegian CPS system as it practices today.

The Norwegian Foreign Ministry`s spokes person Astrid Sehl also says this: "We hope that this case can be solved as soon as possible and to the best of the child`s interest".

I totally agree with her. It is the best of the child`s interest that should be the focus here. Besides - what do the children want? Do they want to live in Malaysia with mum, or do they want to go to Norway to get "new parents" while mummy goes to jail?

Maybe the Malaysian lawyer could - or rather should - make a case out of the undistortable fact that the County Council that made the decision to put the children in foster homes, is not a legitimate part of the norwegian court system, is not trusted by parents and does not fulfill the criteria of a tribunal. Has the mother`s and her childrens`human rights been violated in this and other ways throughout the course of this case?


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 Post subject: Re: Norwegian CPS refugees in Malaysian detention
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:00 pm 
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On text tv now, Thursdag 1 February, there is a short message saying the mother is back in Norway. She apparently landed today. It says nothing about the children, but they must surely have been brought back along with her also.

  

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 Post subject: Re: Norwegian CPS refugees in Malaysian detention
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Mother and children back in Norway after two years in Malaysia (Mor og barn tilbake i Norge etter to år i Malaysia)
https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/O ... i-malaysia

https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/2018/ ... i-malaysia

http://www.rbnett.no/ntb/innenriks/2018 ... 006142.ece

https://www.tv2.no/nyheter/9650396/


She will not be arrested on arrival, according to her Norwegian lawyer, who also says that she is not charged of any crime. The police however say that the charges (of child abduction) have not been withdrawn, and that she will be prosecuted.

Her lawyer also says that he has not been in touch with her the last few days, and that he does not know the reason why she decided to return to Norway.

As far as I can understand, her children will be taken into fostercare. When and how this will be done, is unclear for now. The municipality will inform the media this afternoon.

Some info from the press conference just this evening:

https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/mor-og-bar ... 1.13895334

From an update from TV2 above, my interpretation is that the children are now already in the care of the government:

The municipality superior in the municipality now confirms that the kids are being cared for in the best possible way.

(Kommunalsjefen i kommunen bekrefter at barna nå blir ivaretatt på best mulig måte.)


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 Post subject: Re: Norwegian CPS refugees in Malaysian detention
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 2:49 pm
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Afterword

So what is happening now?

Nothing. The children are in public care, and the media have stopped asking questions. How the children are? "Safe", it is said. In the imprisoning meaning of the word, I would guess. And as if to imply that they were not safe in the hands of the mother.

How do the children feel? Probably scared and confused. Probably missing their mother. Maybe crying. But it is not a matter. The best interest of the children is to set into practice what was decided two years ago by a court which is in fact not a court.

And what is happening with the mother? We do not know. She was interesting as long as she had the children, but probably no one has any interest of her now. The police will prosecute her, but they are not in a hurry. They need a rest after some hectic days in Malaysia. The mothers` family might have to make another visit to the holiday paradise to pack some suitcases and do the dishes that were left on the table in the chaos. The childrens`play and laughter will echo from the walls that were housing a vibrant little family just a week ago.

And the father? Probably he is just beginning to realize that he has been doing the dirty work for the Norwegian CPS, without getting any benefit from it. He has been useful, but the CPS can not make more use of him now. He is not even mentioned when the municipality explain how they got the kids home.

To be realistic, there are probably four sorry people in this case right now. The mother, the two children - and as the facts become less foggy to him - the father.

The prospering system is utterly happy, and smiles and payments are already being exchanged on the backs of two children who will be given "a better life", which in reality is miserable to many or most that have to endure it.

Norwegian law has been enforced. On the other side of the planet. In a country where it is not even valid. It could be enforced indirectly by cancelling passports and thereby making the mother and the children illegal immigrants. Ingenious! This is a victory for the system. The lesson to us all is; you will be hauled to the butcher in the end, even if you resist.

How long will vulnerable families have to suffer under this system? We really do not know. There is no true political commitment to get rid of it. And most people are not touched by it and still assume that these families are hopeless cases anyway.

But we will most likely see a rising number of families fleeing Norway in the years to come, and more will probably seek asylum abroad while they still have time. Finally, the Norwegian CPS as we know it will fall, but the end is not yet in sight.

Regrettably.


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 Post subject: Re: Norwegian CPS refugees in Malaysian detention
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:18 am 
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By withdrawing the passports, Norwegian authorities have managed to force mother and children back to Norway.

The Norwegian legislation about passports may be highly relevant in other cases too.


av 1997-06-19-82

https://lovdata.no/dokument/NL/lov/1997-06-19-82

I have not found any official translation.

From §5 abd §7 it seems clear that the authorities can refuse issue of a passport, and also that the validity of an existing passport can be withdrawn, if, for instance, somebody is wanted by the police for some crime.

In that connection, a question of importance for families who leave Norway to avoid Barnevernet confiscating their children, is what the basis of a "wanted" classification on the part of the authorities may be. The mother who escaped with her children to Malaysia, did this in violation of a legally binding decision already made.

But let us take a case of a family leaving in time, before they have violated any law, but Barnevernet nevertheless wants to command them home. It does not take much experience of how Norway makes use of Barnevernet to see the possibility that Barnevernet will also, without any decision made by anybody but themselves, have the authority to make the police notify internationally that the family is "wanted", and accomplish this by means of revoking their passports.

It could for example be a family which Barnevernet had previously been in the process of "investigating" (read: building up a case against), and which Barnevernet now wants to "follow up in order to see how the children are doing".

IF the family has not in the meantime obtained citizenship in another country, making them totally independent of Norway.

*

Also of relevance:
Jf
(Quran schools as a basis to obtain global power)
familien-er-samlet writes in this thread on 6 February:
"Rådet om å skaffe utenlandsk pass for seg selv og barna begynner å bli veldig relevant." (The recommendation to obtain foreign passports for oneself and the children is starting to be very, very relevant.)

  

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