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FORUMET REDD VÅRE BARN • View topic - The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
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 Post subject: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:39 am 
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The five children of a Romanian-Norwegian family taken by Barnevernet (the child protection services, CPS) in Norway

(The case has triggered huge demonstrations across the world. See the thread which will be kept updated.)


The family Bodnariu lives in Naustdal on the west coast of Norway, north of Bergen. There are many websites describing the case in Romanian. Since the children appear to have been taken on grounds of religious raising (the CPS call it "religious indoctrination"), Christian websites are awake to the case.



Popas pentru suflet, Christian Ionescu, 19 November 2015

"I am writing in support of my brother, Bodnariu Marian Constantin (Marius), a Romanian citizen, his wife Ruth Johanne Bodnariu, a Norwegian citizen, and their 5 children (Eliana, Naomi Matthew, John and baby Ezekiel who is only three months old) with joint citizenship in Romania and Norway."

"This past Monday, November 16th, Child Welfare Services (Barnevernet) “kidnapped” the two oldest children (Eliana and Naomi) from school without the knowledge of their parents. Barnevarnet, accompanied by police, then came to the Bodnariu home and forcibly took custody of the two older boys (Matthew and John); leaving a devastated Ruth at home with only three month old Ezekiel while Marius was at work. Marius promptly came home from work to understand what was taking place and, together with Ruth, visited the police station and Barnevernet to resolve the situation. Because Ruth was crying and devastated by the events, Barnevernet and four policemen showed up at their family home on Tuesday, November 17, without any court order or documentation, and also took 3 month old Ezekiel on the stated grounds that the mother posed a danger to her child."

The article goes on to describe with some insight the general activities of Barnevernet (although the writer does not seem informed about similar actions in the other countries of the Western world nor quite of the very many ethnic Norwegian families affected, although it is quite right that foreigners are over-represented):

"What happens in Norway via the Barneverent, under the guise of “child welfare,” is outrageous and unfathomable! Children are considered property of the state; a premise utilized by the Barnevernet to abduct children and place them in foster family care for any unchecked/unregulated/unaudited reason as upheld by the Barnevernet. A quick search on the internet will yield results highlighting hundreds of cases of abuse and testimonies from affected families. The Barnevernet has a history of prevalently focusing their efforts on immigrant families or on families in which one of the parents is of a different nationality (as in my brother’s case, Romanian)."

*


Blog on facebook, November 2015 –

*


Jurnal de Nord, Publicatie Romaneasca din Norvegia, 20 November 2015

This publication has a page in English and one in Norwegian too, but this article has not (not yet) been translated.

*


agnus dei, english + romanian blog, 19 November 2015


  

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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:57 am 
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There is a new posting on the facebook site which should be read:



It contains several things which must in my view be judged as negative.

"- Initially, we reported that Ruth was left at home with baby Ezekiel. It turns out that Ruth was not left home with the baby; she was arrested and taken to the police station at the same time that the two older boys were taken by the Barnevernet.
… It turns out that Marius was also arrested, at work, and taken to the police for interrogation. Communications with Marius and Ruth were then impossible as the police confiscated their phones.

Monday, Nov. 16th …. After many hours of interrogation, Marius and Ruth were allowed to return home with baby Ezekiel."


So the parents were immediately taken by the police, apparently arrested (apparently, because asking them to go to the police station need not be a formal arrest. The fact that the children are taken could very well be enough to make them comply.) Certainly the treatment of them by the police seems to have been quite harsh. This kind of procedure means the CPS will fight to the bitter end never to let the children out of their clutches.

*

"- Tuesday, Nov 17th, Barnevernet, accompanied by four policemen, came to the Family home and took 3 month old baby Ezekiel because they considered that the mother was “dangerous.” At the same time, Ruth was told that their four children were placed in two separate foster homes, have already integrated, and that the children don’t miss them."

Claiming that the children had, after being taken from their parents in that way, "integrated" i foster homes only one day later, shows "attachment theory" in practice. It is by far the most dangerous device of the CPS at the present time and has been heavily sanctioned by state directed policy, rubber-stamped by the Raundalen committee, and is practically never questioned.

*

"The lawyer highlighted that the Barnevernet should have been presented parents with written legal accusations at the time of the arrest and that it was the baby’s right to remain with the mother while being breastfed."

This lawyer apparently either totally trusts the CPS to act in children's "best interest", or is completely ignorant of actual practice: Children are torn away from breast-feeding and before the whole time, even taken by the CPS in the hospital minutes after being born. In fact, the prevalent idea is that children should be taken as early as possible, to prevent them from "attaching" to the parents.

*

"After meeting with their lawyer, Marius was able to look at the docket clarifying the legal accusations filed against them. Among other things, there was the accusation that the parents and grandparents are radical Christians and are indoctrinating the children. The Barnevernet abused their power, broke Norwegian laws, already harshly stacked against parents, and violated the due course of the law as established in that country."

The reference to Norwegian law seems to have come from the family's lawyer. Again, it is alarming if the lawyer thinks that the CPS having broken the law means that the Bodnariu family will easily win through and be re-united. Some thousands of families in Norway have experienced such breaches of the law. They believe that when this is shown in the County Committee or in court, they will emerge triumphant. Great is their confusion and disbelief when no account is taken of it. In fact, in most cases the law does not permit a lot of the things the CPS do, but they are allowed to do it all the same.
   When a lawyer argues as if the legal field of child protection is as the words of the law prescribe, the lawyer is ignorant, or speaks against better knowledge. Either way the result is the same: It gives the CPS the upper hand.

*

"Legal counsel has advised Marius and Ruth to refrain from disseminating further in-depth details of the case, as customary in any legal proceedings, to avoid stalling and/or negatively impacting their Family’s case."

This is quite revealing about the lawyer. Both the CPS, the courts and also the private parties' lawyers tend to buy this propaganda about silence benefitting the family's case. In reality, the family is then utterly dependent on the lawyer. The lawyer should know that nearly all child protection cases are won by the CPS regardless of what anyone – family and lawyer – does, and not pretend otherwise. In fact, if the family shuts up, the CPS and the whole bureaucracy have even greater power. One is then practically in a secret court case, very much as in Kafka. – This has been going on for several decades, in the hands of the lawyers and the judges. Why should they be trusted? What have they accomplished, other than to implement every system-created "idea"?
   In all the devastating destruction by the CPS in Britain, one complaint rises above the rest in utter clarity: about how bad the situation is because of the secret family courts.
   A fundamental need in a society under the rule of law is open court cases, open reporting from the cases – transparency. Open procedures all the way through is the only way to try and stop the "system" when the system has completely gone off the track and courts and judges and lawyers nevertheless "believe" naïvely in its excellence.
   Secrecy is a rather sure sign that what goes on cannot stand the light of day. The Bodnariu family should know that in Adele Johansen's case against Norway (case (a) ) the Norwegian state even tried to get the European Court of Human Rights to hold closed hearings! With the argument that CPS cases in Norway were confidential!

Of course the Norwegian state and all their minions will threaten the family with sanctions if the family goes public. They always do. Of course they will say that by publicising, the parents prove that they are unfit as parents. They always do. But family lawyers should know better than to yield. In actual fact official Norway is quite bothered about all the information that the internet makes possible, and about the seeds of international networks of people who are working to put a stop to CPS abuses. Look at what is being done on a high political level in the Czech Republic and in India. The Nigerian government, too, has acted very well, as have the Russian children's ombudsman and a Polish court. Malaysia sent a top cabinet minister to get three children out of Sweden. (There are articles about this in the on Forum Redd Våre Barn (Forum Rescue Our Children).)
   In contradistinction to this, look at the limp Norwegian press, which follows official Norway's lead like faithful dogs and believe unquestioningly in the official rigmarole. Norwegian press certainly shuts up about most important details in CPS cases and takes refuge in their "rules of circumspection" about "sensitive" matters. What is the result?

" Conversations or accusations against Norwegian authorities on this page, or other venues regarding this situation, do not benefit the Family or situation."

Oh indeed! – If each family buckles under like this, the CPS atrocities will go on forever. Each single case will not be helped by silence, rather it will cement the idea that the family has grave faults to hide and the children must be "saved" from them. Lack of free information will not prepare the population for ever new cases either, so the CPS are well served by silence.

A characteristic of violent abusers within families is that the abuser isolates his victims from other people and threatens them to shut up - or else! Here we have the Norwegian CPS and Norwegian courts and lawyers doing exactly that. It is necessary to understand, digest, the parallel, and act on it. Unfortunately, CPS victims do not have the understanding and help that victims of abuse from family members have from society at large. Rather, the agents of our society are the ones who abuse and threaten them. But they victims can support each other and contribute to stopping this system of abuse by telling the truth clearly and not letting themselves be cowed into submission.

The Bodnariu family have experienced what a Norwegian state agency does. Apparently they still have great trust in what the system people say.

*

"Monday, Nov. 23rd, is a very important day for the Family. The older children will be interviewed by “specialists” and the Barnevernet will determine if the case will proceed to Court. It is expected that if enough evidence against Marius and Ruth is not gathered before Monday, the children might be allowed to go home with their parents and as a family. We are praying and hoping for this outcome, as our efforts support the reuniting of the children with their parents."

"It is expected that .." Who expects?
   This shows, again, some trust in what the authorities say – or perhaps in what their lawyer says. It does happen from time to time that children are let go early on in a case like this, but if so, it has nothing very much to do with the merits of the case. It is just accidental. Unfortunately.

  

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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Rumanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:27 am 
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The newspaper Christian Today writes about family.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/n ... /71869.htm

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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Rumanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:12 am 
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http://www.christian.org.uk/news/childr ... trination/

http://christiannews.net/2015/12/03/chi ... in-norway/
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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Rumanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:19 am 
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The website Christian Today, whose article

on 27 November Arild Holta linked to above, had a new article about the case a few days later:


Christian Today, 1 December 2015

    "The hearing yesterday dismissed their appeal. It ruled that Marius and Ruth are allowed to see their three-month-old baby Ezekiel twice a week for two hours. They can also see their two sons, but not their older daughters.
    They are exploring options for further legal action."


This is as expected. Appealing to the CPS or a county committee with reasonable and honest argumentation has no effect. Whether or not the CPS have broken the law has also no effect on the outcome. They may not have the legal right to do such-and-such, but they are permitted to do so.

The articles seem to have little insight into child protection cases in general, only taking some information from official media, and largely concerned with the Christian aspects – in the present case the accusation against the family of 'Christian radicalism and indoctrination', and also with the view that Norwegian CPS is especially out to take action against foreigners. True, it often works out like that, but the basis is different and in actual numbers, Norwegian families deprived of their children on the same kind of grounds as foreigners are many more than foreign families. Nor is action against especially religious or devout Christians more common than it is against atheists or agnostics.

It would be very useful if Christian organisations and groups were to go into the whole question of Western style child protection. Christian circles in Norway and most of the Western world are unquestioning supporters of the CPS and the official view of parents as inherently dangerous. They are almost immune to any thought that official employees and the whole ideology they base their work on, are untruthful. It would therefore be a help if Christians abroad would inform themselves and understand that action is needed to wake people up to what is being done to children and their families. In order to start this information work, people, including foreign magazines, have to find other sources of information than the general press, which is very loyal to the state and quite dependent on it. As some of the politicians in Czechia concerned with combatting the evil of Western CPS have said: The Western countries have not lived under communism, so people there do not understand what a dictatorial bureaucracy is like and are not on their guard against systematic atrocities from their state.

The articles in Christian Today do not have comment sections. Of the other two websites linked to by Arild Holta above, Christian News does have a comments section, but apparently it does not allow links; I tried to post a comment with links to what I consider would be useful reading, but it was rejected. It is understandable but unfortunate that readers are therefore left in the dark about useful ways to proceed. They will probably think out speculative explanations, like we have seen before in many cases. That does not bring the work against our harmful child protection system forward.

  

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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:16 am 
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One more link about the case:

http://www.charismanews.com/world/53633 ... on-charges
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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:03 am 
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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:18 am 
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A little more information:


The Christian Post, 4 December 2015


WND, 3 December 2015

  

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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:15 am 
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Atter en lenke:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/chris ... ts-152321/
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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:29 pm 
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The content of this is positive:


Christian Post, 11 December 2015

"On a Facebook page established to raise awareness for the family's situation, the Bodnarius announced that supporters are planning to carry out peaceful protests outside of the Norwegian embassies in a number of Western nations that will attempt to put pressure on Norwegian diplomats to urge the Barnevernet to release the children.
    "We would like to act in an organized, legal, and peaceful manner, as we wish to continue being a testimony for the world," a Facebook post states. "In this regard, I assure you, we are currently getting organized and WE will announce the place and the time of the picketing, alongside additional details, at the right moment."
    The Facebook post also explains that supporters are working to secure the ability to protest in other major cities in the United Kingdom, Ireland, United States, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands and even in Norway."


  

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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:15 pm 
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21 December 2015

On 21 December, the Christian newspaper Dagen, based in Bergen in Norway, writes about the case. They position themselves entirely on the side of the moralising child protection services Barnevernet (CPS).

Anklager norsk barnevern for kristenforfølgelse (Accuses Norwegian child protection of persecution of Christians)
dagen.no/Nyheter/barnevern/Anklager-norsk-barnevern-for-kristenforfølgelse-285386
(The link must be copied and entered into the address box.)
Dagen, 21 December 2015

"Dagen har mottatt mange tips om saken i løpet av de siste ukene. Flere kristne ledere i Norge har overfor redaksjonen uttrykt undring om hva saken dreier seg om og at norske medier ikke omtaler den."
(Dagen has received many tips about the case over the last weeks. Many Christian leaders in Norway have to our editorial office expressed uncertainty regarding what the case is really about and surprise that Norwegian media do not write about it.)

"Dagen har vært i kontakt med begge foreldrene. De ønsker ikke å uttale seg om saken. De har heller ikke gitt Dagen innsyn i saksdokumentene fra barnevernet.
   Dagen har også forsøkt å komme i kontakt med foreldrenes advokat, men ikke fått svar på vår henvendelse."

(Dagen has been in touch with both parents. They do not wish to give statements about the case. Nor have they given Dagen access to the case documents from Barnevernet.
   Dagen has also attempted to obtain contact with the parents' lawyer, but has not received an answer to our initiative.)

This is followed by Dagen bringing a series of the usual information from official sources about how they say the CPS really are, a version identical to the way laws and regulations state it is to be. Christian-like* and correct.

+

The editor, Vebjørn Selbekk, strongly defends Barnevernet, both in this case and in general. He believes in, and supports, all the usual contentions: that there are "other reasons" (according to the CPS there always are, if they are challenged about any of the claims they base their taking of children on), that it is too sensitive for the children in CPS cases to be identified, etc.

(Norway is not the Soviet Union)
Dagen, 21 December 2015

"Det vi kan slå fast er at vital informasjon om bakgrunnen for Barnevernets vedtak er utelatt i de artiklene som er skrevet. Og i de kampanjene som føres mot norsk barnevern i de sosiale mediene.
   Derfor blir også bildet av den angivelige kristendomsforfølgelsen så urimelig."

(What we can state with certainty is that vital information about the background for the decision of Barnevernet has been omitted in the articles written. And in the campaigns which are taking place against Norwegian CPS in the social media.
   That is why the picture of the apparent persecution of Christians is so unreasonable.)

No, it is not unreasonable that people take notice of one of the arguments for taking even a baby being breast-fed away from their parents, is that the parents are bringing their children up in a conservative-Christian way. It is unreasonable, on the other hand, that Selbekk buys the official view so uncritically. As long as there is no presecution because of Christianity involved, he holds that everything about Norwegian CPS is all right? Christians should preferably think in a different way about their fellow human beings.
   Oh well, this is by and large the way victims of the CPS experience Christian-like circles in Norway. An example is Kristelig Folkeparti (a professed Christian party represented in the Norwegian parliament). Kristelig Folkeparti has a long history of, among other things, being in office and holding the ministry concerned when CPS victims have been treated very badly and concretely harmed by our authorities on all levels. Selbekk in the title of his article dismisses the thought that conditions in Norway regarding child protection could be anything like the conditions in the Soviet Union. But as early as twenty years ago I was told from families harmed by the CPS that they experienced the CPS like living under Stasi, under Gestapo, like what they have read of the trade with the children of the black slaves in the USA. Editor Selbekk might also find something to learn from what Czech politicians have said (among them the Christian and conservative MP Tomáš Zdechovský), who have put their finger on an important defect among Norwegians: The Western countries have not lived under communism, so people there do not understand what a dictatorial bureaucracy is like and are not on their guard against systematic cruelties from their own state.

It is practically self-contradictory when Selbekk says: "Dagen har - åpenbart i motsetning til de nevnte internasjonale kristne mediene - arbeidet grundig med saken i flere uker." (Dagen has – in contradistinction to the international Chritian media mentioned – worked thoroughly with the case for several weeks.)
   It is normally unnecessary to "work" for several weeks in order to understand that the basic questions about Norwegian protection of children are quite different from those served up by the CPS. When are self-righteous Christians going to ask themselves these questions: Is it in children's best interest to be separated from their parents and from each other, for always or for long periods of indoctrination carried out by the CPS and their foster people, on criteria such as those used by Norwegian Barnevernet and in the way they do it? What does it do to children, both emotionally and in their reasoning and understanding?
   One clear sign that the "work" on the case carried out by Dagen is unlikely to have gone deeply enough, is that Selbekk writes: ".. er midlertidig fratatt sine fem barn av Barnevernet" (… have temporarily had their five children taken away by Barnevernet.) Doesn't Selbekk know what this "temporarily" amounts to, både when children are taken on acute decisions and otherwise? Long weeks and months and years while the CPS spin out the procedures, whereafter one is presented with the legal provision saying that children have now attached themselves to "new parents and circumstances". Have they? Very often not. On the contrary, very ofteh they have suffered because of the separation every day, and they continue to suffer. Some former foster children I know of say that the CPS have deprived them of their childhood.

In the present case it is quite likely that the parents may have punished the children physically or limited their freedom for disobedience. It might then be necessary to make the parents stop this, and given the powers of the Norwegian state it is probably much easier to accomplish than it is for the children to overcome the trauma and stress brought on them by the separation. Selbekk and Dagen should for their part have investigated how much freedom is granted to children in foster homes and institutions, investigated which reality is hidden behind what is often called "imposing limits on the children" in such places as foster homes and institutions, how many children and youngsters flee from "homes" where they have been placed by the CPS, what happens to the education, future, adult life, own family life for a disturbingly high number of those who are made to grow up under CPS regime.

+

Dagen have also produced a naïve propaganda article in which they interview Catholic Caritas in Norway, which is strongly supportive of Barnevernet:

Ukjent med religion som begrunnelse (Do not know of religion as reason)
dagen.no/Nyheter/bistår/Ukjent-med-religion-som-begrunnelse-285390
(The link must be copied and entered into the address box.)
Dagen, 21 December 2015

The people in Caritas have not heard of it, do not know? I have heard of it, I know. I have come across both "She prays together with the children in the evening", "She believes in God", "The children are brought along to church" and a bit more as arguments against parents in some cases.

The fact is that Barnevernet makes use of anything at all as arguments, big and small – lies too. One argument may appeal to some people who hear about the case, other arguments to others. In the county committees and the courts the CPS can rely on decision-makers and judges and lay judges who will all the time search for something in the argumentation of the CPS with which they can agree, so that they can go for family separation, without regard for what a family separation destroys, and without paying attention to what kind of basic understanding and attitude to human beings we find in a service which operates in the way the CPS does.
   We can evidently count on this kind of absence of reflection with editor Selbekk and the newspaper Dagen.


+ + + +


*
(In Norwegian there is a certain distinction between the words "kristelig" and "kristen". The last is well translated by "Christian", while the first has no exact equivalent; it sometimes means the same as "kristen", sometimes more "decent", "becoming", "Christianity-minded". Since the difference is of some importance in what I have written here – I wrote it in Norwegian first – I have coined the term "Christian-like" for the occasion and used it here a couple of times.)

  

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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:52 pm 
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23 December 2015


Here comes the charge of violence

Late in the evening of 21 December, the newpaper Firda (a local paper in the county of Sogn og Fjordane, where the Bodnariu family lives) published an article on their web page saying that there is now a charge against the parents with violence. The article is closed and can only be read by subscribers, but from the listing done by mylder.no (a search motor of newspapers and some other sources) it was clear that the family concerned are the Bodnarius.

(Charges the parents with family violence)
Firda, 21 December 2015


However, NRK, the national broadasting company, had an open article yesterday 22 December, with Firda as one source:

(Parents charged with family violence)
Ein foreldrepar i Sunnfjord er fråtekne borna sine og sikta for familievald. Dersom dei blir dømde kan dei risikere opp til seks års fengsel. (Parents in Sunnfjord have had their children removed and are charved with family violence. If found guilty they risk up to six years of prison.)
NRK Sogn og Fjordane, 22 December 2015

"- Foreldra er sikta for å ha utøvd fysisk vald mot borna sine, seier politiadvokat Sissel Kleiven til avisa."
(The parents are charged with having committed physical violence towards their children, says police lawyer Sissel Kleiven to the newspaper.)

What I assumed might be the case, then, cf my posting above (the original in Norwegian was written in the morning of 21 December), turned out to be so: "In the present case it is quite likely that the parents may have punished the children physically or limited their freedom for disobedience."


There are at least three - four things which should be noted in connection with the actions and our other authorities:

*

Firstly, in my experience it is impossible to know on the basis of what the CPS claims, whether alleged violence means parents having given the children a few light spankings on their bottom or having grabbed their arm hard and taken them to their room if they have been naughty, or whether they have in fact used serious, dangerous violence. Quite independent of the law forbidding any hitting og beating of children, I do not believe it to be a good thing regardless. But that is not the same as the opinion spread through Norwegian society being any better: that almost any "touching" of children is violence in accordance with the intention of the law.

In one case the mother was said to have used violence against her son, by "beating" him with a comb (she had probably slapped the comb on his head, telling him to stand still so that she could comb his hair).

Around 2003, the criticism of psycho-babble cases in the CPS was fairly strong, so that it was "decided" at an open policy meeting that the CPS should from then on cut down on (read: shut up about) these "difficult" cases and instead go out publicly with allegations that violence among parents was rampant; this was thought to be more easily accepted by the press and the Norwegian population.

*

Secondly, one can never trust a charge of violence to be based on truth. In one case in which I functioned as an expert witness, the municipality suddenly came up with an allegation of violence, which they wanted to be "investigated". It was close to the finish of the court procedure and the municipality very likely understood that the case wat not going their way. The allegation was pure psycho-babble without any basis in reality.

In the mother, Sagarika, had once raised her hand and pointed at her son in order to prevent him doing something wrong or dangerous. The CPS were present and they made a big issue out of this and would have it that the mother was violent in general. Our authorities managed to spread the belief among the naïve Norwegian population that the case was about very serious violence. They succeeded quite effectively in this, one reason being that people will not believe that the CPS takes such a drastic step as taking children away from their parents on the basis of pure fabrication.

*

Thirdly, police lawyer Sissel Kleiven of this Sunnfjord case expresses herself in a completely parallel way to that used by Norway in the Bhattacharya case: she says that the case is not about that which has primarily upset people abroad:

"Saka har vekt stor oppsikt og engasjement i utlandet, der det er gjennomført protestar utanfor fleire norske ambassadar. Noko av bakgrunnen for dette er at det i sosiale medium og i internasjonale aviser blir hevda at barnevernet har teke hand om borna på bakgrunn av kristen indoktrinering.
   Politiadvokat Kleiven avviser dette overfor Firda, og seier at det ikkje er relevant i deira vurdering av saka."

(The case has drawn great attention and concern abroad, where protest demonstrations have taken place outside several Norwegian Embassies. Some of the background for this is that in social media and in international newspapers, it is claimed that Barnevernet has taken charge of the children on the basis of Christian indoctrination.
   Police lawyer Kleiven dismisses this to Firda, saying that it is not relevant i their assessment of the case.)

Well then, in the Bhattacharya case Norway kept saying that the case had nothing to do with the CPS criticising Sagarika over having fed her son by hand (usual in India), nor over the children having slept in their parents' beds (also usual in India), nor over Sagarika not using a special table for changing the baby's nappies (she did what is much safer: put the baby on a low bed). All of these arguments can, however, be read in the case documents.

It is not unlikely that the allegations of violence in the Bodnariu case have been associated with some view of "punishment" in conservative Christianity. That does not mean that that the CPS do not include Christianity itself in its reasoning. If this finds no resonance, they can still say that their criticism does not concern Christianity.

This whole way of conducting a case is unfortunately well-known in child protection cases: The CPS comes up with various arguments; when these arguments get attention and are criticised in public debate, the CPS and their allies wave them away as irrelevant and say that there are totally different, very serious facts in the case.

*

Last of all, we must take seriously a more fundamental question: Is transfer of care, with permanent dissolution of the family, in these children's best interest? Not least must we ask what burdens of stress and despair it lays on the two little boys, and what effect it has on the baby, who was still being breat-fed and now suddenly does not have its mother near it.

It is not primarily a question of whether the parents should be punished or not, it is a question of whether the children are to be punished by having their family destroyed. Cf what says, something which is probably quite representative of good understanding of parenthood around the world: "Snatching children away must be limited to 'grave abuse'."

The CPS repeatedly "inform" the public that they carry our "advice" and give "help", e.g so that people can "master their parental role better". In reality, the CPS are instead keen to get hold of the children. Their advice and guidance is a continuous burden on parents, often comprising meaningless measures which anyone can understand are of no help irrespective of what the family's needs may be. The result is that the parents are worn down and then the road is open for the CPS to declare that the parents "do not have the ability to give care". When children have already been taken by the CPS, the CPS are not interested in helping parents to improve whatever it is that is lacking, so that tha children can return home as quickly as possible. On the contrary: the CPS fight tooth and nail against the children ever having any positive contact with their parents. They do this through talking big about "attachment theory", which they blieve shows that the children are not attached to the parents but rather to foster persons or CPS personnel at institutions etc; they do it also through brainwashing the children about how bad and despicable the parents are. Editor Vebjørn Selbekk is therefore fundamentally ignorant the children have temporarily been taken away from their parents. Cf especially the last part "The situation today" here concerning , a case where the parents had punished their children physically.

If now the parents Bodnariu have in fact punished their children physically, do the CPS and the police intend to take them seriously to task and, independently of any trial and sentence, teach them to understand that this is both illegal and can actually be harmful and even dangerous, and that the whole life of the family is at stake if they do not change their behaviour? – Not likely. Rumours referred have it that the Bodnarius have instead already had remarks flung at them by CPS people saying that they are trash, to be discarded forever. A statement made by the CPS to the children's mother as early at the 17 November: that the four oldest children had been placed in two different foster homes and were already "integrated" there and did not miss their parents, does not exactly signal any understanding in CPS circles of how important parents are to their children.
  
  

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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:05 pm 
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Another Christian newspaper with support for the CPS

Even more Norwegian Christian-like* child protection idyll. The newspaper Vårt Land (= our country) joins the chorus, with a well-known song of praise. I am not surprised. And it is written in English, so obviously its aim is to defend our child protection services (CPS - Barnevernet) and our authorities in the eyes of other countries.

Trygve W. Jordheim, head of news in Vårt Land:

Norwegian authorities do not take children from their parents just because they are Christians.
Vårt Land, 23 December 2015

"We contacted people in the municipality and journalists in the local papers, and we tried to get in touch with the parents. Nothing that we have learned, has pointed towards this being anything other than a «normal» child welfare case."

He is indeed right! Snatching children away from their parents without warning and on "acute" decisions, babies being breast-fed included – it is absolutely normal in Norwegian CPS.

The author is possibly the same jounalist from Vårt Land who rang me the other day, wanting me to give some sort of statement about the case, something which I of course refused. Like Mr Selbekk of Dagen (cf ), this Mr Jordheim seems, anyway, to be interested solely in whether accusations against Christianity enter into the child protection case. He is not concerned with the cruelties of the CPS, unless they specifically target Christians? And if they do, he places the responsibility of possibly disproving the accusations on the parents! :
"It must be emphasized that there still is no indictment against the parents of the five children, and that the matter certainly could end with the family being reunited without anyone being prosecuted. The best possible outcome would be for all the claims being disproved."

So the devastating events experienced by the children and the parents in the meantime – they do not count? Well, I have for a considerable number of years wondered what Christian-likeness has to do with Christianity. Mr Jordheim's article seems like one more confirmation that being Christian-like is more of a matter of seeming becomingly virtuous than anything else. Not very many publicans and sinners will pass muster before Christian-like eyes. With reference to the title of the article, Mr Jordheim and Mr Selbekk might benefit, in human and humane terms, by being confronted with the fact that they ought not to take official versions of what the CPS do and the effects of their doings, quite as lightly as they do.


+ + + +
  

*
(In Norwegian there is a certain distinction between the words "kristelig" and "kristen". The last is well translated by "Christian", while the first has no exact equivalent; it sometimes means the same as "kristen", sometimes more "decent", "becoming", "Christianity-minded". Since the difference is of some importance in what I have written here – I wrote it in Norwegian first – I have coined the term "Christian-like" for "kristelig", and likewise "Christian-likeness", just for the occasion.)

  

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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:09 pm 
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PRESS RELEASE December 26, 2015

https://www.facebook.com/notes/norway-r ... 74?fref=nf

The process of confiscating the Bodnariu children started when the Vevring School Principal (“Principal”), the middle school attended by Eliana and Naomi, called the Barnevernet and expressed her concerns regarding the girls’ religious upbringing, her understanding that the girls are being disciplined at home, and that she considers the parents and grandmother to be radical Christians; an overriding concern that the principal’s perception of the Parents’ and grandmother’s religious beliefs inhibit and handicap the girls’ development. In the same call to the Barnevernet, the Principal stressed that she was only requesting the Barnevernet’s counseling services, as the girls are intelligent and creative, and that she, the Principal, doesn’t believe that the girls are being physically abused at home. This same Principal had previously scolded and categorically forbid one of the Bodnariu girls from singing as a result of the girl singing a Christian song to her schoolmates.

Upon receiving this aforementioned call from the Principal, the Barnevernet filed a claim, alleging family violence, against the Parents without ever informing Marius & Ruth.

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 Post subject: Re: The five children of a Romanian family taken in Norway
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:49 pm 
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A demonstrasjon was planned for today Boxing Day before the Norwegian Embassy in Madrid:


Norway Return the children to Bodnariu Family, 26 December 2015

*

In London there is to be a demonstration on 8 January (2016)::


Portalul crestinilor conectati, 23 December 2015

  

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