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 Post subject: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary 2016
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:37 am 
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BBC documentary

Tim Whewell:
Parents Against the State. Documentary 2016
Video
Jacqueline Jonquille, on youtube, 17 April 2016


Tim Whewell:
Norway's Barnevernet: They took our four children... then the baby
BBC News Magazine, 14 April 2016


The video is also found here:

Norway: Parents Against the State
Norway, Return the Children to Bodnariu Family, 20 April 2016

Norway: Parents Against the State (Our World, 16/4/16)
Traditionalism Archive, 16 April 2016


  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:27 pm 
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New documentary in July / August 2018 about Barnevern questions, this time concentrated around the Brøyn case:

Tim Whewell:
Norway's hidden scandal
BBC.co.uk, 2 August 2018
(radio version)

Norway's hidden scandal
(text)

(An alternative title is also given: "Norway's silent scandal".)


TV times:
BBC World News GMT (so +2 for Norway)
Saturday 4th August – 12:30
Sunday 5th August – 00:30
Sunday 5th August – 07:30
Sunday 5th August – 19:30
Tuesday 7th August - 08:00
Friday 17th August - 08:00

**

Norwegian article about the program:

Jan Simonsen:
BBC med ny dokumentar om barnevernet: "Norges skjulte skandale" (BBC with a new documentary about Barnevernet: "Norway's hidden scandal")
Resett.no, 3 August 2018

*

BBC's own trailer for the radio programme:

Crossing Continents
Norway's Silent Scandal
The conviction of a prominent expert in Norway's troubled child protection system - for downloading images of child sex abuse - has put the organisation under scrutiny once again. In April this year a child psychiatrist was convicted of downloading thousands of the images on his computer. Up until his arrest he played a key role in decisions about whether children should be separated from their parents for their own good. But there has been no public discussion in Norway about the implications of his conviction, no outrage in the newspapers, no plans to review cases he was involved in - even though the country's child protection agency, Barnevernet, has been much criticised in recent years for removing children from their families without justification. In April 2016 Tim Whewell reported on the story for Crossing Continents after Barnevernet attracted an international storm of protest over its child protection policies. Tim now returns to Norway to report on this extraordinary twist in the story and to find out why child protection in one of the world's wealthiest countries appears to be in crisis.
Produced and Reported by Tim Whewell.


*
  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:06 am 
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The newspaper Dagbladet has woken up today 4 August 2018 and features the BBC documentary:

"Slik får tv-verden se barnevernet: «Norges skjulte skandale» (This is the way the tv world gets to see Barnevernet: "Norway's hidden scandal")
BBC: - Mer støy om barnevernssaker i Norge enn andre land." (BBC: – More noise about cps cases in Norway than in other countries.)
Dagbladet, 4 August 2018


The Ministry's reply to the request for an interview is in itself a striking illustration of how they carry on.
  
  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:39 am 
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A couple of postings of the tv documentary on youtube already:


Norway's Silent Scandal (BBC - Our World, 2018)
Step up 4 Children's Rights, on youtube, 4 August 2018

BBC Our World - Norway's Silent Scandal (HD Documentary)
Josh Pham, on youtube, 4 August 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:35 pm 
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An article from NTB, the Norwegian national news bureau. Published by several newspapers and websites in whole or in part, or referred to:

NTB:
Helleland ville ikke gi kommentar til BBC-dokumentar om norsk barnevern (Helleland would not give a comment to the BBC documentary about Norwegian child protection)
Resett.no, 5 August 2018

Linda Hofstad Helleland is the Minister for Children and Equality.

*

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern (BBC with documentary about Norwegian child protection)
Journalisten, 5 August 2018

Barneminister Linda Hofstad Helleland ville ikke kommentere BBC-dokumentar om norsk barnevern (Children's Minister Linda Hofstad Helleland would not comment on a BBC documentary about Norwegian child protection)
Nettavisen, 5 August 2018

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Bergens Tidende, 5 August 2018

Dokumentar om norsk barnevern (Documentary about Norwegian child protection)
NRK, 5 August 2018

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Dagen, 5 August 2018

Dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Senaste, 5 August 2018

Barneminister Linda Hofstad Helleland ville ikke kommentere BBC-dokumentar om norsk barnevern
SOL.no, 5 August 2018

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
abc nyheter, 5 August 2018

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Norway News on Twitter, 5 August 2018

Dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Nyhetspressen, 5 August 2018

Alt om saken – De viktigste artiklene (Everything about the case – The most important articles)
Google Nyheter, 4 - 6 August 2018

Barneminister Linda Hofstad Helleland ville ikke kommentere BBC-dokumentar om norsk barnevern
ON 4 US, 5 August 2018
  
BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Haugesunds Avis, 5 August 2018

BBC med dokumentar om norsk barnevern
webavisen, 5 August 2018

Helleland vil ikke gi kommentar til BBC-dokumentar om norsk barnevern
Resett, på facebook, 5 August 2018

Norway's Hidden Scandal
Leen's story

Barnefjern, 3 august 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:24 pm 
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Outside Norway:


The Documentary Podcast: Norway's Silent Scandal
Stitcher, 2 August 2018

Un trabajo de la BBC
El escándalo oculto de Noruega: fotos y videos de menores abusados, familias separadas y un servicio estatal cuestionado

Ásperos episodios en un país al que la ONU considera casi ideal para criar hijos.
Mundo, 3 August 2018

BBC o norském systému týrající děti a ničící rodiny
Rodina.cz, 3 August 2018

snps named person ..norway style
The UN rates Norway one of the best countries for a child to grow up in. And yet too many children, according to a large number of Norwegian experts, are taken into care without good reason. The conviction of a top psychiatrist in the child protection system for downloading child abuse images is now raising further serious questions.
Holliegreigjustice, 5 August 2018

Norway's Silent Scandal
The conviction of a prominent expert in Norway's troubled child protection system - for downloading images of child sex abuse - has put the organisation under scrutiny once again.
PlayerFM, 2 August 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:09 am 
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BBC Documentary Features A Scandal about Norway’s Child Welfare Service
TNP – The Nordic Page, 7 August 2018

Brief, but matter-of-fact report about the BBC documentary, except that TNP could have desisted from writing "suggested" here:

"The psychiatrist had been used as an expert, until his arrest in April this year, by Norway’s controversial child protection system and was involved in decisions about whether children should be removed from their parents, suggested the program."

They only have to read the judgment against Brøyn. It is not just about something the BBC program "suggests". (The NTB article's "mener" is evidently the origin, by NTB no doubt introduced in order to protect themselves and Norwegian authorities.)

    

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:49 am 
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Three interesting articles in Norwegian in Dagbladet and Aftenposten regarding the BBC documentary:

*

Reidar Hjermann, specialist psychologist, former Children's Ombudsman
Dette burde du sagt til BBC, Helleland (This is what you should have said to BBC, Helleland)
Dagbladet, 7 August 2018

Hjermann is a Children's Ombudsman from not so many years ago. He wants to be Minister for Children and Equality Linda Hofstad Helleland's communications advisor for a minute and thinks she should have given the BBC one of the usual, airy replies (my translation here and below) to questions concerning the convicted child psychiatrist who has evaluated the work of other psychologists, and concerning Silje Garmo's asylum application in Poland:

"While I am unable to say anything about the concrete cases you point to, I can say that Barnevernet is the most important, but also one of the most complicated help systems we have for children and families in Norway. Because these are people working with people in very complex cases full of conflict, there will once in a while be things done which we afterwards see to have been wrong. This is implicit in the essence of the discipline/profession, and we must to some degree expect deviance to occur. Therefore, we must in all these cases turn every stone in order to see what could have been done differently, so that we get to have a child protection service which is developing all the time, a child protection service which even further strengthens Norway as the world's best and safest place for children to live."

In other words, Mr Hjermann thinks that representatives for the child protection system assuring us, while keeping their eyes closed to the realities of individual cases, that the system is fine, constitutes proof. And he thinks that Whewell of BBC, plus viewers around the world, will surely be satisfied and conclude that Norway has a child protection service which makes this the world's best and safest place for children to live.
   Well, who knows, lots of people may bow to the assurances of one having had the experience of children's ombudsman. He may have underestimated BBC, however, as may also the Ministry's Mr Ostling, see below.

Some considerable naïveté and superciliousness ( – stronger terms even might be apposite) may be recognised in the attitude of this psychologist-ombudsman. But he is in fact hardly more extreme than the rest of our establishment in Norway. A degree of mania about "Norway Norway" has gripped them ever since we started pumping oil from the North Sea and got super rich.

*


«Norges skjulte skandale» fortsetter i tingretten ('Norway's hidden scandal' continues in the District Court)
Mors advokat: - TV-seere i Sør-Afrika, Nederland, Tyskland og England har tatt kontakt etter BBC-programmet. (The mother's lawyer: – TV viewers in South Africa, the Netherlands, Germany and England have made contact after the BBC program.)
Dagbladet, 10 August 2018

This article brings further details about the case of Inez in the program, from Tønsberg in Vestfold county, in which also the convicted child psychiatrist Jo Erik Brøyn has been involved as an evaluator. It links to an article back in 2016, with the title "The mother must admit violence she has been acquitted of before Barnevernet will consider giving the children back to her".

The municipality's lawyer Simen Tveten says, non-committedly, that he "understands" that the credibility of the now convicted expert is lessened.

The spokesman in Parliament for the Socialist Left Party (SV) on family politics, Freddy Andre Øvstegård, agrees with Hjermann, and says that Helleland's silence is "a betrayal of all the competent experts working in Barnevernet who are subject to massive pressure, and of all the children who depend on Barnevernet's protection." He also says (!) that Helleland should have answered that "Norway takes individual cases seriously and defends the important job the child protection service and the employeed do". To all the people who have experienced the "We cannot go into individual cases" reply when they in their despair have begged politicians to do something about the way Barnevernet has treated their cases, the two parts of Mr Øvstegård's statement contradict each other considerably.

And here is the assistant director of Bufdir (the section of the Ministry concerned with Barnevernet), Mr Kjetil A. Ostling, confirming that the state indeed, regardless of understanding that there is some "pressure", intends to continue the irresponsibility of refusing to do anything about individual cases:

"– As expert directorate for Barnevernet, we do not know individual cases and can therefore not say anything about them. Takings into care are often difficult and complex cases with a strong emotional commitment, and reticence should be shown in such cases both by the press and by individual persons."

Mr Ostling continues by venting a not-so-hidden contempt on those who criticise ("it is important to differentiate constructive criticism from personally perceived offences and special agendas") and on BBC, which has allowed "individuals with a strong and wellknown commitment against Barnevernet to make themselves heard".

*


Sakkyndig psykiater dømt for nedlasting av overgrepsfilmer: – Barnevernet bør se på sakene på nytt, mener kommisjonsleder.  (Expert psychiatrist convicted for downloading of abuse films: – Barnevernet should look at the cases again, says Commission leader.)
Den erfarne psykiateren var med på å bestemme om foreldre fikk beholde barna sine. Samtidig lastet han ned store mengder overgrepsbilder.
(The experienced psychiatrist took part in deciding whether parents should keep their children. At the same time he downloaded great quantities of abuse pictures.)
Aftenposten, 10 August 2018

Sounds nice that the Expert Commission on Children (ECC – Barnesakkyndig Kommisjon) takes the initiative to re-examine reports. However, the text makes clear that all they do is to check the reports against purely formal rules, and with the "self-evident" basis of a belief in the general competence and rightness of the decisions dished out by the ECC. They do not go into the facts of the cases. First of all, they would have to have all the case documents, and they do not have them. Secondly (very ominous to the whole psychological/psychiatric profession and to Barnevernet as a whole), they would have to go into the real facts, which would also imply talking with the private parties and valuing their truthfulness on the same level as they would have to do that of the Barnevernet industry. The basic problem is still there: All these people, and indeed the mainstream media in Norway, take it for granted that public employees are truthful and competent and that what they do is good for people.

Psychologist Katrin Koch, the leader of the ECC, is wonderfully revealing when she  says;
" – There are about 25 cases for which I have gone into whether his assessmwents deviate from that of other members.
–  It is a reasonable question to pose whether his general expert judgment ability has been influenced by his private situation. For examples if he has to a large extent taken the parents' side in abuse cases.
–  I found nothing like that, his assessments are not generally different from those of the other members."


Exactly! They all come up with the same kind of assessments of whether children should be taken away from their parents. The only worry the people in the ECC can se regarding Brøyn, is whether he can be suspected of having sided with parents! And no mention of the dismal results which child protection care has – generally. General facts our generality-loving authorities otherwise speak of like automatons. Just not this one, however, they carefully avoid ever to mention it.
Cf
Educating the young – better through cooperation with the child protection agency (CPS)?
20 December 2014

Cf also the research referred to in this article:
Sverre Kvilhaug:
Barnevernet i Norge – Befringutvalget
Internasjonal barnevernforskning av betydning for spørsmålet om omsorgsovertakelse er til barnets beste
(Child protection in Norway – The Befring Committee. The importance of international child protection research for the question of whether taking into care is in the best interest of the child)
7 June 2000

Hilarious Norway! Everything is all right, according to Katrin Koch and all the others, provided they all do the same and all think the same, and do not by any chance take parents seriously.

Here is Mr Ostling of Bufdir, in the same vein:
He is interviewed in Aftenposten too, and once again conveys that every aspect of the Norwegian system is excellent – in general. Very revealing of the general business of the Barnevernet industry on all levels is this statement, as to whether especially the cases in which Brøyn has taken part should be reconsidered:
" – We have not considered it, and have no basis for saying anything about it. At the same time we take note of the fact that the ECC has gone through a number of cases and have found that the convicted psychiatrist's assessments do not deviate from that of other members' assessments".

Ostling even has the courage to claim that
"– Generally there is a very high degree of security of rule of law in Norway. Cases involving taking into care are often tried before courts on several levels after being treated in the County Boards. All of these instances have thorough processes.
– A high expert quality on all levels of the case handling is to secure the children of rule of law and of security. At the same time faults may occur. Therefore, the services in the municipalities are also to be subject to quality control from the state's authorities and critical journalism."

Control from the state's authorities and critical journalism? Journalism critical of all information from anybody other than the state's authorities, journalism directed by Bufdir & co about what to think and say, and to, every time, accept that they will not "go into individual cases" but that they are all all right and that the system guarantees it?
    It's like hearing functionaries of the state in Eastern Europe under communism talk.

*


These articles, especially seen together, make it quite possible for thinking people to begin to see the sorry reality of a destructive and oppressive system which Norwegian child protection is, from the bottom and up to the lacquered facade.

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:58 am 
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The leader of the Commision has an interesting statement:


"It is reasonable to question if his expert opionions has been affected by his private situation. For example if he to a great extent has partied with parents in cases of abuse, says Koch".
("– Det er et rimelig spørsmål å stille om hans generelle faglige vurderingsevne har vært påvirket av hans private situasjon. For eksempel om han i stor grad har tatt foreldrenes parti i overgrepssaker, sier Koch. ")


Koch in this way tries to lead our thoughts towards the conclusion that the bias has been in favor of parents, and not against them.

This is a way of reasoning that is completely taken out of the blue. We have in fact no knowledge of how his secret and ongoing crime has affected his work through all these years. We only know that this great lack of judgement must have influenced his work in one way or another, and maybe in different ways in different cases.

In some cases he seems to have had a bias against parents.

In life in general, my experience is that people who have their own struggles can sometimes be surprisingly harsh on other people that have had much of the same challenges in their lives. And sometimes it is opposite.

Never the less there is - as far as I know - no evidence that the convicted psychiatrist has been soft on any parents, or that he has had a bias in favor of parents, in cases in which he has been involved.

Koch`s statement can be interpreted as an attempt to calm and tone down the importance of the rotten egg that she has had in her basket.

And by the way, how biased is Koch herself?

Very biased of course. As a leader of a commision that has been scandalized and ridiculed, she has herself looked through some documents and concluded that there has been no misjudgements. Everything is in order!

And thereby made it clear that her own judgment of bias and how she herself might be affected is completely absent.

This is not convincing.

The psychiatrist`s work in the commision should obviously be investigated by independant individuals.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Some comments to the documentary and especially to the Norwegian reactions. (Some of it repeats "Three interesting articles" above.)

Marianne Haslev Skånland:
A new BBC documentary on Norwegian child protection
MHS's home page, 15 August 2018

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:11 am 
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Good article analysing particularly what Reidar Hjermann and Thore Langfeldt say in the documentary:

Margaret Hennum:
Noreg sin dehumaniserande strategi, del 9
(Norway's dehumanising strategy, part 9)
Margaret Hennum, on facebook, 9 August 2018


Google Translate barely works for this piece; much of the sense disappears. It may have something to do with Margaret's writing in her west coast dialect, but one would have thought that the people working on translation to and from Norwegian for Google would have done slightly better.

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:32 pm 
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Hege Dahl:
Clammy double standards and a strong tendency to psychological denial
MHS's home page, 17 August 2018

The article is a comment on an article in Dagbladet on 16 August, which concerns the BBC documentary.

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:26 am 
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Three workers for the system defending it

Three central people in the cps system essentially attempt to explain away and trivialise the relevance of the case against Brøyn for Norwegian child protection generally, and thereby defend Barnevernet, in the usual way. They also try to claim that the international attention Barnevernet has drawn has other reasons – as if that would excuse Barnevernet even if it were so.

Vigdis Bunkholdt, psychologist,
Jona Hafdis Einarsson, leader, Norsk barnevernsamband (Norwegian cps association),
Jan Storø, associated professor, OsloMet University:
Hvorfor svarer ikke norske politikere på BBCs spørsmål om barnevernet?
(Why do Norwegian politicians not answer BBC's question(s) about Barnevernet?)
Aftenposten, 16 August 2018


"Nylig sendte BBC sin andre dokumentar om norsk barnevern. Både dette og det forrige programmet tok utgangspunkt i den internasjonale oppmerksomheten barnevernet her til lands har fått de siste årene.
    Denne oppmerksomheten har i stor grad vært negativ, drevet frem av grupper som ikke ønsker offentlig innblanding i familielivet. De har sett nettopp norsk barnevern som et passende sted å markere dette."

(Recently, the BBC had on its program a second documentary about Norwegian child protection. This as well as the previous programme selected as its starting point the international interest which the cps in this country has received in recent years.
    This interest has to a large degree been negative, propelled by groups who do not want public interference in family life. They have seen Norwegian child protection as exactly the kind of suitable place to emphasise this.)


No, it is not the case that groups with authoritarian attitudes to family and the power of parents have by intensive search found Norwegian Barnevernet "suitable" for making their views known. Christian groupings, especially in Romania and among Romanian-related people in other countries, have discovered information, to start with from relatives in several countries of the Bodnarius in Norway, that a child protection service they had never heard of or indeed "searched for", had treated the Bodnariu family in Naustdal horribly and destructively. They then apparently realised that they must try to stop it through as wide publicity as possible (cf Demonstrations abroad against Norwegian child protection (CPS) – Barnevernet). Because the Bodnarius were deeply engaged in leading a Christian life, the mobilisation came first and foremost from Christian groups. But the publicity also resounded among people of all sorts of opinions in many countries, people with no particular "family view" as a motive, but just awake to abuse to fellow human beings and families going on.
    Furthermore, all sorts of issues draw interest from people who relate them to their own special "agendas". It normally does not matter if the subject matter is a question which can stand on its own feet.
    As regards the Michaláková case in the Czech Republic, there was from the start no such Christian element at all. One of the most deeply engaged Czech politicians to make a huge contribution, Tomáš Zdechovský, is an active Catholic, and Christian groups have also taken part, but the case, and the conditions in Norwegian child protection generally, received great support from politicians and alert people of nearly every persuation (cf Czech family seriously damaged by Norwegian child protection service (CPS)).

*

"Dette er et rimelig spørsmål å stille, men vi finner det bemerkelsesverdig at det gjøres en kobling mellom psykiaterens svært uheldige holdninger til barn og kvaliteten ved norsk barnevern generelt. Vi stiller spørsmål ved BBCs agenda."
(This is a reasonable question, but we find it remarkable that a connection is made between the psychiatrist's very unfortunate attitude to children and the quality of Norwegian child protection generally. We question the BBC's agenda.)

No, the BBC's "agenda" is for that matter unimportant, especially when the case has from the BBC's side been presented quite realistically as a question not about what one man has done, but about what the subsequent actions of the Norwegian establishment may show about the system of child protection. Cf the TV-dokumentary at times:

05:20:
Whewell (BBC): "It was the trial of one expert. But it raises much wider questions about the whole Norwegian child protection system."

20:50:
Whewell: "But this is about the credibility of the system, isn't it? It's not really about one man, it's about the issue of the system that employed him."
Langfeldt: "Yeah but you could ... I mean, what do you mean by 'the system that employed him'? They shouldn't have employed him, but they didn't know. I mean ..."
   Langfeldt's reasoning here seems to twist the question away from one of a possible, deep-rooted falutiness in the whole system, and he, first and foremost, takes the focus away from the fact that our authorities have not done anything efficient now, after the court case, to investigate this right through to the bottom.

So no, it is not remarkable that Whewell from the BBC sees just what the case and our authorities' trivialising of it says about the whole child protection system. The way Norwegian authorities, in the child protection sector AND generally, have tackled (or let us say: have not tackled) the Brøyn case, is a symptom of the kind of thinking which permeates the system. The BBC's motives are not remarkable; the motives of Norwegian child protection and Norwegian authorities are, and the way they have been allowed by the population to keep on in this way for years is (cf Udgaard: Norway and 'civil society').

*

The three authors of the article think the minister for children should have commented, not refused to speak with the BBC. It's not surprising that they do, since their recommendation of what to say is the same as that of Hjermann! (cf A new BBC documentary on Norwegian child protection ) :

"Statsråden kan lese innlegget til tidligere barneombud Reidar Hjermann i Dagbladet 7. august, så vet hun hva hun skal gjøre når neste anledning byr seg. For slik Hjermann skriver – så enkelt kan det gjøres."
(The Minister can read the article by former children's ombudsman Reidar Hjermann in Dagbladet 7 August, then she will know what to do when the next opportunity presents itself. Because the way Hjerman writes – that is how simply it can be done.)

Can it? Is everybody abroad so gullible that they swallow such hot-air?


On the other hand, I agree with them on this:

"Vi våger påstanden at nærmest ethvert annet saksområde som hadde blitt utsatt for en kritisk dokumentar i BBC i beste sendetid en lørdag kveld, ville utløst en rask reaksjon fra det offentlige Norge. Departementet kan ikke skjule seg bak «vi kommenterer ikke enkeltsaker»."
(We dare to assert that if a critical documentary had appeared on the BBC in prime time on a Saturday night in almost any other sphere, it would have elicited quick reaction from Official Norway. The Ministry cannot hide behind "We do not comment on individual cases.")

The question is, though, whether Norwegian authorities have anything relevant to say, so long as they will not admit that the total attitude and view of children and their protection reigning in political circles has for years been on a slippery slope down into a black hole: Barnevernet, with just such an ideology as displayed by these three writers.

*

If Barnevernet were not such a tragedy, these bouts of fencing would have been a very entertaining comedy. They contain such obvious nonsense.

  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:16 am 
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A defender of the system:

Ben McPherson:
Open letter to Tim Whewell, BBC: Children in Norway are born with rights
Aftenposten 16 August 2018


"... and I’m married to someone who works at Bufdir, the directorate which provides guidance to the Child Protection Service (Barnevernet). ...
....
I wish you’d pointed out that children are almost only removed from their parents in cases of violence or sexual abuse, or due to psychiatric problems or substance abuse. This information is freely available."


His information is not so good. These claims about causes are what is very freely available, because they are dished out incessantly by our authorities and Barnevernet itself. Reality is that they are not even the most frequently alleged causes for taking a child from its parents. There is a difference between general principles and what takes place in the real world.

*

"You claim that Norwegian parents increasingly distrust the state. I couldn’t find a basis for this claim, beyond the words of Cecilia and Inez, both of whom lost their children to Barnevernet."

This formulation about the two interviewed mothers is very derogatory, as if the reason given to separate the children from them, was automatically right. McPherson also trivialises the question of whether the reason was correct:
"Whether or not the Child Protection Service acted with excessive zeal in these two cases, it’s hardly surprising that both are suspicious of the service."

*

You glossed over the fact that in most cases Barnevernet works with families to ensure that they don’t have to remove children, and that they invest huge resources in teaching parents the skills they lack.
    It’s hardly surprising that the system will work less well in cases where parents refuse that help.


There is a difference between what Barnevernet says and what they in fact do. We do know this "work". A lot of pressure which is unreasonable, monitoring, allegations of details made out by Barnevernet to be serious, force used e.g to let one's family be installed in "mothers' homes" / "family centres", to be "evaluated" by psychologists. All of it tends to lead to the children being taken after a while.

*

"It’s good that you have added to that debate. I only wish you weren’t — unintentionally — feeding a narrative that Norway is anti-family and anti-Christian."

Quite right, Norway is not anti-Christian. But leading Christian circles in Norway swear by Barnevernet, the state, and close to blind discipline under the state and an unquestioning belief in it. This is especially the case in groups which dominate in Kristelig Folkeparti (the Christian Democratic Party), which is represented in Parliament, and in the newspapers Vårt Land and Dagen. Opposition to this state admiration exists, but it is often branded by many who think on the lines of McPherson as having as their central tenet a right to hit children. The core of their belief is perhaps rather that children have a right not to be deprived of their parents unless this punishment – for it is indeed a very serious punishment against a child – is proportionate, has a sensible relation to the offense, and is beyond question based on truth about every aspect of the case.

*


McPherson's article has also been published in Norwegian: Kjære Tim Whewell, beskyttelse av barn er midt i hjertet av norsk kultur. Åpent brev til Tim Whewell, BBC.

  
  

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 Post subject: Re: BBC documentary: Parents against the State. Documentary
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:55 am 
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The role of the Expert Commission on Children and the Ministry's plans


An article in Aftenposten does not seem to be on the internet:

Overgrepsdømt sakkyndig i barnevernssaker – nå kan sakene bli ettergått på nytt
(Expert in child protection cases found guilty of abuse – now the cases may be re-examined)
Departementet vurderer om det er grunnlag for ytterligere oppfølging av barnevernssakene der den dømte barne- og ungdomspsykiaterern har vært sakkyndig.
(The Ministry considers whether there is reason for further follow-up of the child protection cases in which the sentenced child and youth psychiatrist has functioned as an expert.)
Aftenposten, 18 August 2018


What the Ministry thinks and wants is unclear. On the one hand we are told:

" – Departementet vurderer nå hva som bør gjøres, og om det er grunnlag for ytterligere oppfølging. Det sier Kai Agnar Finsnes, konstituert ekspedisjonssjef i barnevernsavdelingen i Barne- og likestillingsdepartementet på spørsmål om departementet vil ta initiativ til å gjennomgå barnevernssakene der den dømte barne- og ungdomspsykiateren har vært sakkyndig."
(The Ministry is now considering what ought to be done, and whether there is a basis for further follow-up, says Kai Agnar Finsnes, temporarily appointed Director of the child protection section in the Ministry for children and equality, when asked whether the Ministry will take an initiative to go through the child protection cases for which the sentenced child and youth psychiatrist has functioned as an expert.)
  
But he continues:

"Vi er tilfreds med at Barnesakkyndig kommisjon (BSK) har gått gjennom et utvalg barnevernssaker som barnepsykiateren har hatt til vurdering. Vi registrerer at BSK har funnet at hans vurderinger ikke skiller seg vesentlig fra de andre medlemmenes vurderinger i de samme sakene, sier han."
(We are satisfied the Expert Commission on Children (ECC) has gone through a selection of child protection cases which have been evaluated by the child psychiatrist. We take note of the ECC's findings that his evaluations are not markedly different from those of other members' evaluations in the same cases, he says.)


It is quite a question whether the Ministry's satisfaction should not be turned around into a different observation:
    The evaluations of the members of the Expert Commission on Children are to a remarkable degree of the same type as the evaluations of a child psychiatrist who has had as his usual hobby the downloading and viewing of pictures and films in which sexual abuse of children takes place, and who in court was primarily concerned with his own position as having been found out and now being stigmatised (this is clear from the judgment).

*

The article finally turned up on the internet late Sunday night. It was dated the 18th in the paper version; on the web it is dated the 19th and has a slightly different title and some other changes, but is clearly the same article:
Sakkyndig psykiater dømt for nedlasting av overgrepsfilmer: Departementet vurderer om barnevernssaker skal tas opp igjen
(Expert psychiatrist sentenced for downloading of abuse films: The Ministry considers whether child protection cases are to be re-opened)
Aftenposten, 19 August 2018

  

  

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